List the greatest game ever created: by genre

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by nostromo
Its a strategy game and it plays in real-time. What more do you want? RTS refers only to games like Starcraft?

Yes. As far as I know there isn't really a name for EU, HOI, or Rebellion-style games, but they are clearly a different genre from C&C and Starcraft.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by El_Cid
The question remains why havent the rpg fans mentioned Oblivion here? all the talk/hype since Oblivion was released would make you think it would get 1 nomination from someone?

Er... with all the talk/hype since Half Life 2 was released, you'd think someone would mention it (people are saying Half Life 1 so far). Just because you think something is a wonderful game doesn't mean you consider it to be the best of that genre of all time.. duh!

Maybe Jon Miller is right .

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Oh, I apologise, I missed the "Process Turn" button in Eu2. Could you point it out for me?

Well for one you can pause the game and execute all of your orders before resuming, and in SP this is in fact the norm (at least, that's how I play). That's completely different from a clickfest RTS.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Oh, and Europa Universalis and its ilk are most definately RTS games. They are simply another form of RTS game. Just like both Fallout, Diablo, and Final Fantasy are considered RPG games, there is room in each genre for variances.

[Kuciwalker]

EU gameplay is completely unrelated to C&C gameplay, though.

[Kuciwalker]

SimCity is a real-time strategy game (not war strategy, but still strategy). Should it be classified as an RTS?

[Imran Siddiqui]

What and you think Diablo's gameplay is related to Fallout's? Aside from the most general level?

[Kuciwalker]

Looking through the RTS article on Wiki, it doesn't even mention EU, HOI or Rebellion.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What and you think Diablo's gameplay is related to Fallout's? Aside from the most general level?

Never played either, so I have no idea. They're both "level-grind to improve your stats" games, though, right?

[Kuciwalker]

In Dreamfall you play a role; it is correctly classified as an adventure game rather than a role-playing game, because it doesn't contain any of the gameplay elements that define the genre (the idea of levelling, experience, stats, equipment, etc. some of which are present in each RPG even if it's missing the others).

[Imran Siddiqui]

On the 'most general level', yes. After that they are wildly divergent games. Diablo even being considered by some diehard RPGers to be an Action game with RPG elements with Fallout being a true hardcore RPG experience, complete with turn based combat (and action points ).

I mean both EU and C&C are about beating your opponent in real time, though, right? The differences being EU is on a more epic scale. They are divergent, but no doubt it is a Real Time Strategy game.

[Kuciwalker]

It's "real-time" "strategy", but it doesn't contain the gameplay elements that tie pretty much ALL RTS's together - base building, unit building, controlling individual units, resource harvesters, and more.

Moreover, time in EU et. al. is fully discrete, and you essentially play it as a simultaneous-turn TBS. Time in an RTS is for all practical purposes continuous, and you usually can't or don't pause to give orders, then speed up time for a bit, then pause to give orders.

I mean both EU and C&C are about beating your opponent in real time, though, right?

So is chess when you have a clock

Halo is about beating your opponent in real time, too.

On the 'most general level', yes. After that they are wildly divergent games. Diablo even being considered by some diehard RPGers to be an Action game with RPG elements with Fallout being a true hardcore RPG experience, complete with turn based combat (and action points )

And yet the genre isn't defined by the particular strategies or ways of playing that are best - GalCiv can play very differently from Civilization - but rather common elements, which interact differently in different games.

[Kuciwalker]

If someone tells me a game is an RPG, I have a certain set of expectations (there will be XP grind of some sort, levelling and/or skills, I'll get loot and money from encounters with mobs, I'll spend the money on better equipment to kill more mobs and beat the next boss). If someone tells me a game is an adventure game, I'll assume it's something like Myst (puzzle driven, little/no combat, often strong plots). Most people, when told a game is an RTS, will run it fully expecting to play a game like Starcraft or AOE. They won't assume you're talking about EU3.

edit: wiki has EU listed as a "Grand strategy" game. That sounds familiar.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Time in an RTS is for all practical purposes continuous, and you usually can't or don't pause to give orders, then speed up time for a bit, then pause to give orders.

What, Rise of Nations is not an RTS game anymore?

it doesn't contain the gameplay elements that tie pretty much ALL RTS's together - base building, unit building, controlling individual units, resource harvesters, and more.

There is unit building and controlling units though. However, they involve armies. And you do build up your provinces, approximating 'base building' functions. It isn't the same exact model as, say, Starcraft, but that doesn't mean everything is completely different.

And yet the genre isn't defined by the particular strategies or ways of playing that are best - GalCiv can play very differently from Civilization - but rather common elements, which interact differently in different games.

Instead of comparing GalCiv to Civilization, what about, say X-COM? The only common elements, really, there are turn-based gameplay and strategy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If someone tells me a game is an RPG, I have a certain set of expectations (there will be XP grind of some sort, levelling and/or skills, I'll get loot and money from encounters with mobs, I'll spend the money on better equipment to kill more mobs and beat the next boss).

And if you play, say, Deus Ex, which doesn't match your expectations (which plenty of people do believe to be an RPG or, at the very least, a FPS/RPG hybrid)?