Nonlinear RPG games

[Urban Ranger]

This spins off from the Oblivion thread


The following post came from Imran:

Yes, it is still a set path. It doesn't matter if A has 10 dungeons and B has 10 dungeons and so on, you still have to go A->B or else you'll die.

It's no longer a set path if you can choose from a1, a2...a10 in any order. It's even less of a set path if you can choose from the first three dungeons in each of the areas in any order.

No one is saying that a level 1 character should take on the big boss at the beginning.

If you can't do that, it wouldn't be nonlinear according to your definition, because there are certain things your character can't do...

What is being said, is that having areas that are closed off to lower level characters because of difficulty defeates the whole idea of a non-linear gameworld. It becomes de facto linear by having such divisions.

Well, there's no real difference between unable to go to the big boss's lair and an arbitrary number of dungeons because your character isn't strong enough. The game still draws a line somewhere.

From here, we can conclude that nonlinearity of RPG games is a spectrum. One end you have completely linearity, and the other complete nonlinearity. I don't think any RPG games are at either end, they are all along the spectrum.

[Asher]

You need to think more.

Think of the end result more than the method in determining what a linear game is.

[Quillan]

This all seems to vary by how strict your definition of "linear" is. As an example, I consider KOTOR to be a linear RPG.

You cannot get to the lower city until you get the Sith armor.
You cannot get to the undercity until you trade the Sith armor for the Sith papers.
You cannot get into the Black Vulkar base until you've rescued Zaalbar.
You cannot rescue Bastila until you've retrieved the prototype accelerator from the Vulkar base.
You have to have rescued Bastila before you can raid the Sith base.
You have to have the launch codes from the Sith base before you can go to Davik's estate to steal his ship.
You cannot get to Dantooine until you have the ship.

This list goes on and on. While you do have some choices, where you can go is always limited. Personally, I do not consider it a limitation if you can go there, but will probably die if you aren't good enough. Sometimes you can pull things off through stealth or creative gameplay that you could not by just walking in fighting.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, there's no real difference between unable to go to the big boss's lair and an arbitrary number of dungeons because your character isn't strong enough.

Of course there is. There is a big difference between being able to start any story arc at any time and not being able to because the first missions will result in your death.

Btw, in Morrowind, if you wanted to, you could go an take out Dagoth Ur at Level 1 (it's been done).

we can conclude that nonlinearity of RPG games is a spectrum

So that means there is no demarcation point? The 'political spectrum' is a spectrum, does that mean that there is no real division between right and left? No demarcation? Is George W. Bush simply on the 'spectrum' and thus cannot be said to be on the 'right'?

[Solver]

Taking out Dagoth Ur at level 1 was through exploiting bugs or the game in ways that it wasn't supposed to be.

Now, the fact that you could complete the Morrowind Main quest, without exploits, if you killed even every character in the game except one, now that's an excellent example of non-linearity and freedom.

[Dis]

what's the one person you couldn't kill? I was under the impression you can still win if you kill vivec.

[Solver]

Yes, you can kill Vivec. The only one you must have alive to complete the main quest is Yagrum Bagarn.

[Spaced Cowboy]

The is no such thing as a non-linear RPG.

There are only varying degrees of linearity and perceived freedom of movement.

[Dis]

Morrowind was nonlinear.

True you had restrictions of the game world. But until designers design an entire planet to roam around so you can eventually go around the entire world, that won't happen.

But then people will complain you can't go out into space and visit other worlds.

[Spaced Cowboy]

Originally posted by Dis
Morrowind was nonlinear.

True you had restrictions of the game world. But until designers design an entire planet to roam around so you can eventually go around the entire world, that won't happen.

But then people will complain you can't go out into space and visit other worlds.

So you are saying that there were no instances of having todo one thing before another.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy


So you are saying that there were no instances of having todo one thing before another.

nope. You couldn't beat the game that way. But you could just roam around and do what you wanted. Just don't expect to beat the game without doing the quests pretty much in order (though you could skip some parts of the main quests depending on your factions and the time it takes you to do the main quest)

If you do want to get real technical. Yes the game requires you create a character first. . But once you do that, you are free to do what you want.

[:) Smiley]

If the game was too nonlinear, it would get boring if you happen to take a dull path.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy
So you are saying that there were no instances of having todo one thing before another.

There is a suggested way of completing the main quest, but it is not strictly necessary. Not only can you do some missions in multiple ways (killing Vivec or getting him to give you the artefact, for instance) but you do not even need to complete most of the beginning missions in the main quest to finish the game. The main quest can be finished by a new character in under 16 minutes by doing only the essential things required. You only needed to grab two weapons and one piece of armour (in any order) and then kill Dagoth Ur. That is pretty much all you needed to do to complete the game.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Smiley
If the game was too nonlinear, it would get boring if you happen to take a dull path.

Like in Morrowind and Oblivion?

[ZargonX]

I think people are confusing the idea of open-endedness with nonlinearity.