FG: Galactic Overlord 8, Part 5

[Tassadar500]

Snoopy, clear out your inbox.

[snoopy369]

My questions for v2.0:

1. The comms module / bridge upgrade, is that +10% to the 'attack number', +10% to the 'hitpoint number', or both?
2. In terms of alliances, is it the highest number of comms module and upgraded bridge, or do you only get one of them if you're on attack (bridge)? On defense do you get both, or just the highest? (I strongly feel that on defense you should get both, and you should get the flagship bridge only on attack, not the base comms module. Otherwise, who's going to upgrade their base, if you always get the flagship bonus? Or, if you get your base upgrade no matter what, you'll find that whichever is harder to destroy gets built, and whichever is easier to destroy gets ignored ...)
3. Are you SURE you want to have the highest number overall, not the lowest? Otherwise a strong alliance (which we've seen in this round, long lasting alliances) will have a single member who upgrades their flagship and nobody else in the alliance does so until that player loses their base and/or flagship ...
4. Does attrition ever affect the flagship? Does the flagship count towards total BP value of a fleet? How does it count?
5. The drastic reduction of HP As it stands we have 3hp/bp, as you show it it is the opposite - 0.5 hp/bp, unless you build frigates, which are probably a poor choice (we'll see i guess)
6. Does the flagship HAVE to go out on attacks? It looks like it does.
7. If you attack, leaving some escorts behind, do you get the higher bonus for both (ie, flagship bridge = 60%)? Or do you get one for the away crew and one for the home crew (you may have addressed this already in #2)

Overall it sounds interesting, but I think it's too complicated. One of the great things about GO so far is that it's not very complicated... the strategies are there, but they're not very complex strategies, just "do i build all one weapon, and which one, or do i build 2 weapons, or balanced fleet" and "which oob do i choose?" and "do i attack or build a shield or a spy or what?" ... not very complex. This flagship thing is rather a bit more complicated ... and i'm still not sure how this helps increase actual combat and decrease base-swapping. It may increase the incentive to keep more at home, sure, but if you still can't realistically defend against an alliance ... what's the point?

[GeoModder]

Interesting choice between 'to the death' and 'whoevers' there. I like the choice an attacker must make there.

It looks a bit grey in the area that a homebaseless player takes over another homebase in regard to how intact the structure is taken over. Essentially he has a homebase, but it's completely defenseless the turn after if a player decides to jump on, and is even quite vulnerable if he stays home, for all his earlier homebase upgrades are gone, and the flagship is taking over then. Does this also means that if a player is attacked at home with the whole of his fleet present, the homebase -and flagship upgrades stack up to increase his defense odds against the attackers? If so:

Also, with bases participating in defense, how does that affects orders like 'close in'? It's escorts can do that, but the base itself is not capable of closing in on an incoming fleet, thus handicapping a predominantly laser equipped base/escort fleet setup. 'Bunch up' and 'spread out' are not really a problem as long as escorts are at home who can take the appropriate distance, but a base on it's own isn't supposed to be capable of doing those actions as well.

[Kassiopeia]

Uh ah uh ah oh. That was complicated. I think I'll have to digest this for a while. It would be helpful to try to make some comparisons to the 1.5 way of doing certain things and some 1.5 concepts to make the transition easier. Like slave modules == captured bases, factory modules == built home bases, etc.

The Base idea altogether seems nifty, although I wonder if base improving will be rather rare since it's better to just pimp your Flagship with escorts and firepower to take others' bases. I'm also on the fence on whether this level of complexity is needed - or if the complexity only exists in our heads, and will turn out to be not so complex when we actually get to play it out.

We might want to try to set up a little test game to see the system in action. Not a fullblown GO 9 with all the w00tly graphics and characters etc.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Snoopy, clear out your inbox.

Done, although I'm fairly sure you have my email address.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by GeoModder
Interesting choice between 'to the death' and 'whoevers' there. I like the choice an attacker must make there.

I do not think this is a choice, although the wording could be improved. It would be a poor choice imo to make. Although i'm sort of confused as to how you fight *not* to the death when there's only one base ... do you only caputer one module??

It looks a bit grey in the area that a homebaseless player takes over another homebase in regard to how intact the structure is taken over. Essentially he has a homebase, but it's completely defenseless the turn after if a player decides to jump on, and is even quite vulnerable if he stays home, for all his earlier homebase upgrades are gone, and the flagship is taking over then. Does this also means that if a player is attacked at home with the whole of his fleet present, the homebase -and flagship upgrades stack up to increase his defense odds against the attackers? If so:

I don't see you're question about the first part, about the base - the base is 'defenseless', sure, but the turrets won't ever be a large portion of the battle; 1 turret of each type per factory module, when you probably only have 5 or 6 factory modules, will never be a significant thing compared to the escorts.

Also, with bases participating in defense, how does that affects orders like 'close in'? It's escorts can do that, but the base itself is not capable of closing in on an incoming fleet, thus handicapping a predominantly laser equipped base/escort fleet setup. 'Bunch up' and 'spread out' are not really a problem as long as escorts are at home who can take the appropriate distance, but a base on it's own isn't supposed to be capable of doing those actions as well.

I hope 'close in' affects the entirety of the fleet - otherwise the calculations are annoyingly more complex

[joncha]

Added complexity is exactly what we DON'T need. Give us back our oldschool GO.

[Jamski]

Added complexity is exactly what we DON'T need.

Agreed. That's why GO v2.0 is simpler. Those calling "complexity" can relax. It actually is more simple than previous versions of GO. You just need a moment to appreciate the contrast of focus.

Change 1.) Instead of building a series of bases you build one base and add factories to it. These have the same effect and same BP cost as bases did in older versions of GO. Its a simplification and eliminates the "win and capture one base" scenario that was simply never seen in GO anyway. There's one base - capture it and its GONE, broken down into Slave Modules for your own base. This makes the game a bit more deadly. As we progress there will be less and less bases available.

Change 2.) Removal of all the different sizes of ship to strip them down to the basic game function - to add weapons and hitpoints to your fleet. Say hello to Escort Cruisers. They are your friends. 15 ship types reduced to 3, and the addition of disposable Frigates makes fleet listings simpler.

Change 3.) ...So we can add some interest to the fleet listings with the idea of an upgradable Flagship. Now, just look at this as pure numbers. Looks simple already, right? You can spend BPs on fitting core weapons to your Flagship. Even after a heavy battle they'll be fixed up good as new. You're going to get attached to that Flagship. You're going to call other peoples' ships Fagships.

Change 4.) And we add weapons to the Base. Think of this simply as part of your fleet that cannot attack. The table is the same as the one for the Flagship. If you look at the costs you'll see weapons fixed to Bases and Flagships are 2 BP for 3. They're cheaper because they're limited, and because your opponent knows what they are for the whole game. Or looking at it the other way, the Escorts are more expensive because they are flexible - they can attack and defend at will.

Change 5.) This is the biggie that is a real addition of complexity, and I'm kinda considering it as an optional - the use of Bridges and Comms to multiply the attack values of your Escorts (No not the HP too) I liked the idea that one member of an alliance could concentrate on building up their bridge while the other members built Escorts. All fine untill they turn on each other But to be honest these two improvements could be chopped out of GOv2.0 and only leave a small scar.

Change 6.) That's it really. The game is the same. It helps to think of the Flagship as the core of the attacking fleet, the Base as the defensive fleet, and the Escorts as the fluid you can use between these two poles as you wish.

The reason for bringing the rules out now while GO 8 is still in full swing is so I can get the wording clear, and so you can get your heads round the possiblities of the new rules.

Now, who has questions?

-Jam

[Jamski]

Originally posted by snoopy369
My questions for v2.0:

1. The comms module / bridge upgrade, is that +10% to the 'attack number', +10% to the 'hitpoint number', or both?

+10% to the 'attack number', but command modules are being considered 'optional' at the moment.

2. In terms of alliances, is it the highest number of comms module and upgraded bridge, or do you only get one of them if you're on attack (bridge)? On defense do you get both, or just the highest? (I strongly feel that on defense you should get both, and you should get the flagship bridge only on attack, not the base comms module. Otherwise, who's going to upgrade their base, if you always get the flagship bonus? Or, if you get your base upgrade no matter what, you'll find that whichever is harder to destroy gets built, and whichever is easier to destroy gets ignored ...)

You get the highest command rating from all those present. If three allies have no bridge, a +10% bridge and a +30% bridge, then the whole allied fleet gets +30%. Again, command modules are being considered 'optional' at the moment.

3. Are you SURE you want to have the highest number overall, not the lowest? Otherwise a strong alliance (which we've seen in this round, long lasting alliances) will have a single member who upgrades their flagship and nobody else in the alliance does so until that player loses their base and/or flagship ...

The intended effect is that one player might choose to sacrifice ship building in favour of the (ever more expensive) command upgrades, greatly increasing their value as a potential ally.

4. Does attrition ever affect the flagship? Does the flagship count towards total BP value of a fleet? How does it count?

The amount of attrition, should that rule be used, would be determined by the GM.

5. The drastic reduction of HP As it stands we have 3hp/bp, as you show it it is the opposite - 0.5 hp/bp, unless you build frigates, which are probably a poor choice (we'll see i guess)

This is actually a very good point. I will multiply all HP values immediately to reflect current GO values.

6. Does the flagship HAVE to go out on attacks? It looks like it does.

Yes.

7. If you attack, leaving some escorts behind, do you get the higher bonus for both (ie, flagship bridge = 60%)? Or do you get one for the away crew and one for the home crew (you may have addressed this already in #2)

No, you get the Base bonus to those left behind, and the Flagship bonus to those that attack.

Anyone else find these points unclear in the rules? How could I word them better?

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I hope 'close in' affects the entirety of the fleet - otherwise the calculations are annoyingly more complex

Close in even affects Bases, yes, however daft it may sound. Spearman beats tank LOL

-Jam

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by joncha
Added complexity is exactly what we DON'T need. Give us back our oldschool GO.

Truth!

[Kassiopeia]

The God-Emperor has convinced me. GO 2.0

[Jamski]

I have edited the rules for Hitpoints, for clarity, for great justice and for SCIENCE.

The controversial Bridge/Comms upgrades are now optionals

Thankyou for continued comments, we can make these rules awesome.

Oh, and anyone know some ad-free cost less no fee hosting?

-Jam

[snoopy369]

Orders sent.

[Tassadar500]

Orders sent.

[Kassiopeia]

How did you manage? I keep trying to send a PM and I keep getting a database error page.