Abandonware?

[child of Thor]

I look under my computer desk, blow a bit of dust and behold some classic nostalga, i play it fairly often too

I have the odd bit of downloaded software(horrors!), but it only gets to that if i just cant find the title i'm interested in anywhere to buy, and i get those from a place that if asked removes any title it has on its lists. Seems ethical to me(as its a fairly well known site).

Still part of the fun is tracking down a real origonal with all the maps, pull outs etc.
I had quite a heavy few weeks on ebay a while ago untill i managed to get a copy of Daggerfall. But i eventualy got it and worked out how to install and play the thing with minimal crashing.

Real boxed origonals just make you feel like you really own something, its not just(maybe dubious) data on your harddrive, and your supporting the folks who make these games we love

[CapTVK]

Re: Re: Abandonware?

Originally posted by vovan


I recently uhhh, found a floppy with this game... Gold of the Americas. Man, it's a good game.

Got that game too, for real in fact on my SSI collection CD.

It was quite a challenge and it showed that it's quite feasible to even operate a business with 100% tax rate on profits. You just have to make just a bit more this year to pay taxes for last years profits.

[Agathon]

Maybe if we discuss it, but don't mention the word "abandonware"

It depends what it means. Many old programs have been abandoned by their creators and released for free. My favourite Speccy site is pretty good about taking down stuff that owners complain about.

Without abandonware sites and people who can be bothered writing emulators, these games would die.

I'd actually like to see a court case on this. I think it is legitimate for users to download games they have already paid for and run them on emulators so that they can continue to enjoy them. If they won't give you that right, then screw them.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by child of Thor
I look under my computer desk, blow a bit of dust and behold some classic nostalga, i play it fairly often too

I have the odd bit of downloaded software(horrors!), but it only gets to that if i just cant find the title i'm interested in anywhere to buy, and i get those from a place that if asked removes any title it has on its lists. Seems ethical to me(as its a fairly well known site).

Still part of the fun is tracking down a real origonal with all the maps, pull outs etc.
I had quite a heavy few weeks on ebay a while ago untill i managed to get a copy of Daggerfall. But i eventualy got it and worked out how to install and play the thing with minimal crashing.

Real boxed origonals just make you feel like you really own something, its not just(maybe dubious) data on your harddrive, and your supporting the folks who make these games we love

Ag, i think that you are correct, that dl'ing a game for say nintendo that you own legitimately is legal, or at least not illegal.
Copyright law in respect to digital media has generally been interpreted to mean that you have the right to own one copy of the digital data itself, in any media you choose, in useable form, and you also may generally make a backup copy for archival purposes, as long as you only run one copy of such a program at any one point (or as many copies as you've paid for).
For example, I own one copy of Civ3, and have it installed on both my computer and my girlfriend's computer, but only play it on one or the other.
Sony sued a while back and tried (in various ways) to get Bleem! and Connectix to stop making playstation emulators; they failed legally but succeeded commercially (buying out connectix and driving bleem! into bankruptcy through legal fees). (This site discusses the dispute, in part.) Although Sony succeeded in killing both companies, the legal ramification was that emulators are considered legal.

[Skanky Burns]

I was looking for Hyperspeed a few months ago and a few websites have the files for download but cannot due to Atari aquiring the rights to the game and their blanket "no piracy" stance on all games they hold rights to.

So I was confronted with a situation where the game was not available for download and also not available for sale.

[Agathon]

I'd like to see all software that has no longer been supported for five years and is no longer offered for sale at market price released under a free licence that allows anyone to share it, but not charge for it.

Why? Because intellectual property rights exist only to serve the public good through giving people a financial incentive to create such things as games. In the case of old software, there is a demand that is not being met by the market -- so the state should step in and guarantee the right of persons to engage in mutually beneficial exchanges. Otherwise we are just condoning hoarding that benefits no-one.

I'm willing to bet that corporate scum are behind the demonizing of abandonware. If I was the programmer of an old Spectrum game and people still wanted to play it after 25 years, I'd be flattered and gratified.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by DrSpike
Doesn't change the fact that the owners don't like discussions of abandonware on this site.

That's because some of the games on these websites are not officially released by the copyright owners.

Kudos to Sid for doing the right thing

[Skanky Burns]

But on the other hand these games are removed if the copyright owners request it or even make a blanket statement against abandoware such as that of Atari.

[dunk]

I've played many a game on emulators.

I've had many a session of Kennedy Approach and Dr. Creep.

In terms of abandonware. The issue that is at core is the definition of it. If I hold the copyright to something, it is my right and my right alone to publish it for public use, sale, whatever. Who knows? 5 years from now, Sega / Nintendo / Atari / Commodore may decide to publish an emulator of their own and allow DLing of ROMs from a website for a fee. It's their right to do so or not do so at their choosing.

Several games have been released for free public distribution, Ultima IV is one of them. But, EA / Origin still holds the copyight for the game and can cease that practice any time it desires to.

Copyright law is intended to create an incentive for creating an original work such as a novel, computer game, etc etc. By distributing games for free without permission of the copyright holder is illegal no matter how you look at it, regardless of how long C64s haven't been manufactured. Also, regardless of whether the recipient has paid for a copy of the game in the past. Does having paid for a book 10 years ago entitle you to a new copy if the book falls apart or is lost? No. Or a braille version if you lose your sight? No. Or a paperback copy if you decide you'd rather only tote around the smaller one? No.

That being said, it sure is fun to fire up a game of Archon.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
But on the other hand these games are removed if the copyright owners request it or even make a blanket statement against abandoware such as that of Atari.

Yeah, the safeguards are probably enough. But last time we made that argument it wasn't accepted, and I've no reason to think it will this time.

[Skanky Burns]

True enough. It was worth pointing out for its own sake though.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
True enough. It was worth pointing out for a +1 though.

Corrected.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by dunk
Copyright law is intended to create an incentive for creating an original work such as a novel, computer game, etc etc.

That also should mean that copyright should last for a limited duration. That is because copyright creates a monopoly, and the interests of the public and the creator must be balanced - in theory, anyway.

Originally posted by dunk
Also, regardless of whether the recipient has paid for a copy of the game in the past. Does having paid for a book 10 years ago entitle you to a new copy if the book falls apart or is lost?

Why not? He already has paid for a copy of it. I posit that it means he paid for the right for unlimited access for the content of said work in question for eternity. Either for himself, or whoever he cares to pass such a right to.

Originally posted by dunk
No. Or a braille version if you lose your sight? No. Or a paperback copy if you decide you'd rather only tote around the smaller one? No.

If you pay the cost for the medium, you should be able to. Otherwise consumers are getting ripped off.

[Agathon]

In terms of abandonware. The issue that is at core is the definition of it. If I hold the copyright to something, it is my right and my right alone to publish it for public use, sale, whatever. Who knows? 5 years from now, Sega / Nintendo / Atari / Commodore may decide to publish an emulator of their own and allow DLing of ROMs from a website for a fee. It's their right to do so or not do so at their choosing.

That's irrelevant. What people might do is neither here nor there. What they will probably do is what matters.

If people desperately want to play these things, and the market continues to refuse to respond, then the market is not doing its job and it is time for regulation.

If the companies concerned were really interested in releasing their old games, they would do so when confronted with such a threat. But without it, they'll just sit on them to the disappointment of consumers.

It's the government's job to stand up for the consumer in the face of all this AYB crap. Copyright exists for the benefit of consumers, not producers. Unfortunately the producers seem to forget that basic fact.

[lord of the mark]

1. IIUC the key legal issue re abandonware has been who has to notify whom, and the difficulties of doing so. If a site will really remove a publishers games cause the pub puts up a generic statement against abandonware, and doesnt even have to contact the site, that seems pretty reasonable to me - how hard is that. The publishers may be unwilling to make such disticintions, for fear of not being able to control it once theyve agreed to give any legitimacy - but their hardass stand may be hurting them, by looking unreasonable.
I acknowldege Polys position, since they depend on pubs, and not all pubs are reasonable.

2. Where a pub DOES decide to withhold abandonware, thats there right - they could have many different reasons to, cause they are thinking of doing a sequel (yes, it might help a sequel to giveaway an old game, but thats the pubs decision to make), etc

3. OTOH, copyright isnt forever. Its supposed to expire at some point, and material is supposed to enter the public domain. It seems logical that in a field like software, where tech updates obsolece games, and payback cycles are short, that using copyright lengths from traditional media (themselves perhaps unreasonably lengthened) is unreasonable.