Dungeons and Dragons is the best role playing system for crpg's

[Jamski]

Erm... it IS a D&D game.

Its just got a different "skin" on it.

[Dis]

http://www.bioware.com/games/dragon_age/

here's the new bioware game in development.

It's not D&D because I don't think they have the license to do D&D games anymore. I'm curious how this will turn out. I was afraid bioware was turning to games like Jade Empire for their moneymakers. And would shy away from serious RPG's. Hopefully dragon age proves me wrong.

[Nostromo]

Its just because D&D is the better known system, or should I say the better known game setting. When you say rpg, most people think D&D. And when it comes to crpg's, that's what most people want: generic tolkienish heroic fantasy with elves, orcs, troll... If you try to do something else, like Planescape: torment, people won't buy it, even if that particular games is "powered" by the D&D system.

Take Vampire: the masquerade Bloodlines, for example. Its a great CRPG based on the popular Vampire p&p rpg. The setting is refreshingly different. But there are no elves, no orcs, no Trolls, not dwarves, not even hobbits. So it probably won't sell very well.

[Dis]

planescape is d&d . just set in a different plane of existance.

[Nostromo]

I think it's important to have differences between the classes. And consequently I'm fine with class restrictions. I don't want to see a druid running around with platemail. Although in 3rd edition you can do that. So perhaps you can say 2nd edition rules are better. But a druid is still a druid, and cannot cast mage spells. This is the way I like it.

I prefer a system like GURPS, where can you tailor any character you wish. Irc, Fallout was more ore less inspired by GURPS. It seems Steve Jackson Games refused to license them the game.

[Nostromo]

planescape is d&d . just set in a different plane of existance.

That's why I wrote:

even if that particular games is "powered" by the D&D system.

That proves that the D&D system doesn't sell a game in itself: you also need "the" D&D setting, the Forgotten Realms.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Jamski
Erm... it IS a D&D game.

Its just got a different "skin" on it.

It's the same engine with a different skin, but the setting is not a D&D one.

[Jamski]

Erm... there is no "D&D" setting.

D&D is just the rules, and there are a few official settings (Forgotten Realms, Planescape, Dragonlance, Mystara, Ravenloft, Greyhawk etc etc etc)

You mean its not a magical fantasy setting. But hey, maybe it is a magical fantasy setting. The Starwars universe is just a good example of how small the differences are between "fantasy" and "science fiction" settings are.

Friendly Aliens = nonhumans (dwarves, elves, hobbits etc)
Non Friendly Aliens = monsters (orcs, trolls, dragons etc)
Force = magic

That's what I mean by a "skin" - the setting is a generic fantasy one with a "sci-fi skin" pasted over the top. Its basically the same as the Forgotten Realms, but with everything simply renamed, i.e. Lock Picking is "Security" and Lock Picks are "Security Spikes". Traps are "Mines". Bows and Crossbows are replaced by blasters and pistols, etc etc...

-Jam

[Nostromo]

Erm... there is no "D&D" setting.

By D&D, you mean D20, right? For those of you don't know what I'm talking about, D20 is a generic p&p rpg based on D&D. You can even download it for free. Its just the rules, not a peep about settings. KOTOR was based on StarWars D20. There's even a D20 version of Call of Cthulhu. But D&D itself isn't generic: its build around an official setting. It used to be the Forgotten Realms, but they recently replaced it by a nearly identical setting. Don't remember the name.

[Barinthus]

Thanks, Jamski Unfortunately I don't have NWN.

Child of Thor - yes I had those books also

[joncha]

d20
old school AD&D

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by nostromo
Its just because D&D is the better known system, or should I say the better known game setting. When you say rpg, most people think D&D. And when it comes to crpg's, that's what most people want: generic tolkienish heroic fantasy with elves, orcs, troll... If you try to do something else, like Planescape: torment, people won't buy it, even if that particular games is "powered" by the D&D system.

Take Vampire: the masquerade Bloodlines, for example. Its a great CRPG based on the popular Vampire p&p rpg. The setting is refreshingly different. But there are no elves, no orcs, no Trolls, not dwarves, not even hobbits. So it probably won't sell very well.

Well Im not RPG expert, but it does seem this setting issue is a seperate question from the game system.

But its an interesting one, so let me pursue it. Theres a reason that a standard Tolkienish fantasy setting is preferable to an innovative one, and not cause people are dull clods. Its the same reason theres an advantage to a historical setting, even for someone whos not all that keen on history.

Its easier to LEARN. I play a history game, and know pretty much that bronze armor is better than leather armor, what a catapult is good for, and that a battleship should beat a frigate. That a marketplace will improve trade or gold, while a factory will improve production. While I have little or no idea WHAT say, Zentronium armor' value is compared to neutronium armor, or what
a incantation of Zorax (made that up) does. So theres that much more to learn, in addition to the rules and strategies for the particular game. In a Tolkienish world at least SOME things are familiar - I kinda know what an elf will be good at , what makes a ranger distinctive etc. As opposed to trying to figure out stuff ive never heard of. Similarly thats an advantage for ST or SW - millions come to the game knowing enough of the universe that they can focus on other stuff. (why tolkienish games like Forgotten Realms D&D have been better than MOST ST or SW games is another question)

[Nostromo]

Yes, familiarity is an important factor. But that doesn't explain why people won't buy the vampire game. After all, vampires are pretty familiar, and the game is set in L.A. People who play crpgs are like those people who insist on eating spaghetti all the time.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Theres a reason that a standard Tolkienish fantasy setting is preferable to an innovative one, and not cause people are dull clods. Its the same reason theres an advantage to a historical setting, even for someone whos not all that keen on history.

Its easier to LEARN.

How so? Whether a game system is easier to learn depends on the game mechanics, not the setting.

[Urban Ranger]

Re: Dungeons and Dragons is the best role playing system for crpg's

Originally posted by Dissident
But I find myself playing the D&D system the most. There has to be a reason for that, right?

That's because there are more CRPGs based on AD&D. There are more of them because the AD&D rules are sterile and mechanical, thus easier to implement in a game.

Compared the rules of AD&D to, say, Ars Magica.