article on game prices - set to increase?

[Brent]

I think I'd still buy Civ4 and GalCiv2 before their prices go down if they start at $60. In the past I've usually bought games before the prices go down. If the prices go up higher than $60 I might wait. I like to get new games while people are still talking about them. Civ and GalCiv are the only computer games I play right now and the only ones I'm looking forward to. I have a PS2 but haven't used it much and only have 2 or 3 games on it. I wouldn't mind playing future Civ and GalCiv games on console. I'm sure I'd still enjoy playing Civ1 and 2 but I don't. There are a few games I played on my Atari 800 that I'd love to play again.

[Dis]

I hope not. And if they do increase it should only be $5, not $10.

Games like Diablo 2 and Doom3 actually did sell their games at higher prices. not too many people complained about Diablo2. That was worth it since the provided the multiplayer servers- much better than a mmrpg (though not as much to do as in those games). Doom 3 I wouldn't say was worth it, but I got the game for less than $50 at Fry's anyways.

[pg]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
another thing i dont get. All those of you who pirate big publisher games cause "theyre not good enough" why dont you buy games from independents, or get open source games, or whatever. If the big name games are so bad, why do you pirate them in lieu of supporting something new?

I would still buy games from independents but there aren't many of those either. PC games are in the toliet right now. I could post a photo of all my games probably over $5000 and I've owned 3 PCs and I think 6+ consoles? I buy plenty just not lately. I do have a PS2, and Gamecube with about 10+ total games for both. Lately I rent games for consoles due to the short play time. I also buy less co-op and multiplayer console games because I don't have any serious gaming friends like I used to.

well lets see the MMORPG cos get revenue when they sell the game, PLUS they get subscription fees. Even pirates have to pay. And theres nothing equivalent on the console. and its a big market. No wonder theyre making em.

It is very possible to pirate MMORPGs. I'm pretty sure Everquest and Ultima Online(and I think others) have been reverse engineered so you can run your own private server. Both of those games still have 500k+ subscribers so pirating isn't so widespread as it should be if everyone thought like you seem to do(eg anyone who warez games pirates everything ). There are also numerous free MMORPGs and more coming every day. MMORPGs are on consoles too. FF11 on PS2 I think has maybe over 100k users?

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Daggerfall was a buggy mess... I could hardly play it. Perhaps that colored my view of it .

Yeah it was buggy at first. Seeing how much you love Black and White I don't see how that would phase you at all. You couldn't even beat B&W's massive five levels without a patch. In all seriousness Daggerfall 2.13(IIRC that is the latest patch) is pretty damn stable. I'd say it's about the same as Morrowind. I rarely crash on either and usually play for a few hours at a time.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Although to be fair, when gameplay was king the gameplay was fairly simple, and presentation wasnt really great either, you got a flashing screen with 8 colours one at the start and one when you completed it.

I don't buy that argument at all. Back then cutting edge graphics were probably just as impressive as they are today. I know I was impressed as a kid with SNES graphics. When I first saw the introduction to FF6 I was floored. I thought graphics would never be able to get better. Gameplay is always more important.

Look at some Japanese games today, you can tell theyve been playtested to eternity sometimes, they ooze quality, but even those come with big opening FMV sequences now.

I think it's cultural. Japanese seem to be much more serious in regards to gaming. People who like gameplay over all else are usually hardcore gamers but in Japan I'd guess normal people value gameplay more. Gaming is much more accepted over there too.

Once I heard Sega Europe was turning down games like Radiant Silvergun, Strikers 1945 and Dracula X because "you only need to hold down one button" (wrong anyway), I knew the European and US console game market was ready to be flushed with sequels and basic remakes with only enhanced graphics all over again.

I know the feeling. There are so many good Japanese games that don't get translated. I can' t image translation is so hard to do or expensive that so many games aren't done. Mainly it goes back to perception I think. No one thinks those obscure Japanese games will sell. I think they would especially considering ROTK is still going strong and that's much more hardcore than most Japanese games.

http://donut.parodius.com/ - hub site for translation of Japanese games. They have a lot listed here.

[pg]

oh, btw lotm quartertothree is one of my favorite forums. how did you find it?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by pg
oh, btw lotm quartertothree is one of my favorite forums. how did you find it?

Ive lurked at CSIPGS on and off for some time, and even once posted there under a different name. So ive seen Tom Chicks and/or Mark Ashers posts every so often with their links. So i occasionally look at qto3.


As for piratical behavior variations, yup, i know there are different groups - at one extreme the folks who (proudly) pirate everything, at the other those who pirate only when they cant find a demo, and buy or stop playing - which i can see an argument for - and then beyond that are grey areas like abandonware, etc. In my most recent snarky remarks, i was hinking of folks like Tass who buy some games but play lots of games they pirate, cause theyre "poor" and the games "arent that good" I suppose we could do another thread on indy gamers, open source projects etc. I have enough old games im still not done with that i havent looked for those much, but then i havent found a need to pirate anything either.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Seeing how much you love Black and White I don't see how that would phase you at all. You couldn't even beat B&W's massive five levels without a patch. In all seriousness Daggerfall 2.13(IIRC that is the latest patch) is pretty damn stable.

Patches on cable modem >> Patches on Dial-up .

Hell, I don't even remember if I was online in '95!

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by pg
I don't buy that argument at all. Back then cutting edge graphics were probably just as impressive as they are today. I know I was impressed as a kid with SNES graphics. When I first saw the introduction to FF6 I was floored. I thought graphics would never be able to get better. Gameplay is always more important.

Cutting edge graphics back then required a lot fewer people and a lot less talent than they do today - it just really isn't that hard to draw 2d images.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker


Cutting edge graphics back then required a lot fewer people and a lot less talent than they do today - it just really isn't that hard to draw 2d images.

It's not hard to make a 3D mesh, either. There's various degrees of complexity that can be given to a game's graphics, but the medium used doesn't neccisarily make it more difficult, or require more people to create.


The insanely intricate and detailed pixel art used in some of the best SNES games rivals the complexity of similiarily detailed 3D graphics which are used today.

Of course, there is also alot of simplistic 3D games being made today, just as there was alot of old games which used simplistic graphics.

[pg]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Patches on cable modem >> Patches on Dial-up .

Hell, I don't even remember if I was online in '95!

The last Daggerfall patch was 1.4mb and that takes less than an 10 mins on 28.8k. Some games today with their 100mb+ patches probably take longer over a cable modem. Daggerfall was also released in August 31st of 1996.

[pg]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker Cutting edge graphics back then required a lot fewer people and a lot less talent than they do today - it just really isn't that hard to draw 2d images.

I'm sure this is true but games back then were also a smaller industry. I'm too lazy to do ratios comparision from today and then but one thing I am pretty sure of is graphics today eat a bigger percentage of total budget than before. That doesn't mean it has to. Games with low graphics budgets can still make profits.

BTW, pixel art is hard. I've been trying to make some for Wesnoth because I thought it looked easy but it's not. Trying to make good looking graphics out of less than 72x72 is frustrating.

see my works in progress below and don't laugh.

[CapTVK]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

i was hinking of folks like Tass who buy some games but play lots of games they pirate,

...

And if you want then create a thread filled with open source games and such...I dont go out searching for them since they tend to give little value for what they ask for, but if there are some good ones out there that I'm absolutely oblivious to then by all means...

I'm making a safe bet if there isn't a single person in this thread who hasn't played some or more copied* games during his/her lifetime. It only becomes a problem if you primarily resort to copied games your entire life.

In reply to that final argument which concerned open source ("free"/libre games). Hell, if you're prepared to go off the beaten tracks there's tons of freeware and open source games available.

So, little value in relation to...what exactly? time and the effort of looking for it? That you state that you're oblivious to them seems to be due to the fact that you don't even bother looking...



* Note that I say "copied", not "pirated". "Pirate" is an oblique term, a classic debating trick to smear or make the other party appear in a different light. Pirates are actually cutthroats armed with cutlasses who board and plunder ships and have a squawking parrot on their shoulder

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by CapTVK
* Note that I say "copied", not "pirated". "Pirate" is an oblique term, a classic debating trick to smear or make the other party appear in a different light. Pirates are actually cutthroats armed with cutlasses who board and plunder ships and have a squawking parrot on their shoulder

[Kassiopeia]

The word "pirate", in my opinion, has mostly lost its negative connotations due to overuse and the way its been so widely adopted, even by the "pirates" themselves. Not so with people who are not familiar with the subject, though.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar

i was hinking of folks like Tass who buy some games but play lots of games they pirate,

1. "Buy some games"? You already had your rant on how I had bought *too many* games. You can't have it both ways. Choose the argument your going to stick with: Am I a massive spender or have I recieved too many games as gifts?

2. Perhaps 3 out of, what, 14, (1 of which was really gifted) constitues "lots" (as opposed to the "some"-worthy tally of 10 of 17)...Really, isn't it better if you at least argue what is true instead of try to spin it to support your position (Tass buys some of his games, but he pirates *lots* of them!!!111!!1)

And if you want then create a thread filled with open source games and such...I dont go out searching for them since they tend to give little value for what they ask for, but if there are some good ones out there that I'm absolutely oblivious to then by all means...

I didnt say you bought too many games. And i really cant follow your habits in detail, im sorry.

Not many good open source games - I dont know. But an open source game, if low value, is legitimately free. Im saying if you like commercial games, buy them. If commercial games dont give good value for money DONT play them, and play open source or other free games. I dont understand the point of view that says these games arent worth paying for, but im gonna play em anyway.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CapTVK


I'm making a safe bet if there isn't a single person in this thread who hasn't played some or more copied* games during his/her lifetime. It only becomes a problem if you primarily resort to copied games your entire life.

I use the word pirate. I thought i was going easy, since i didnt say "thief" which would bring up the whole tired discussion of how piracy technically aint theft. Copying is misleading, since in some circumstances copying may be legal. When its a problem is another issue. Ive tried to address some of the issues in another thread, its thrown this one entirely off track.

Oh, and ive never pirated a game in my life. Period. Or music. Or whatever. My daughters friend has suggested my daughter take advantage of the Sims lack of CD rerquirements on some xpacks, to share xpacks. Im prepared to look the other way, ON CONDITION my daughter buys at least SOMETHING in that franchise - buys more than she shares. And I will lay out the issues for her, and let her make the choice. (its still academic, till we buy a PC that will run the Sims)