article on game prices - set to increase?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar


Assuming they just spontaneously decided to buy the PC themselves as opposed to save money over time and (mostly) ask others for funds, your correct

Er, you ask others for funds for your PC, and then DL games? Who gives you funds for a PC - i have to buy mine. Perhaps these folks could help fund my new PC huh? And you can spend almost $400 for games and you NEED to DL others? Look, you got enough games. Play em. You run out of games to play, go out and plant a garden or something. Maybe do something nice for the people who funded your PC. Dont need to pirate games.

[child of Thor]

I think most of us wouldn't mind paying more for good value games.

Its just that when the majority of releases aren't of a good standard or value, and we go out and loyally buy one after another; it just begins to annoy you.
So you buy less until you here the word on some game forums. Pirates pirate more etc - everyone loses.

[Maquiladora]

I remeber when some console games used to cost £50+ back when cartridges were in. Street Fighter:SE cost £60 for the Mega Drive here when it was released.

The only game I'd even consider buying in the near future is Pro Evolution Soccer 4 because I know for sure I'll get hundreds of hours out of it, I could d/l it easy enough though.

[child of Thor]

I think the current push of console's into the gaming market may be an attempt to get back to the 'cartridge' days of the old consoles.
The PC is endanger of being left out in the cold in this brave new world. Not that i'm saying the PC is doomed - its much to versitile for that, but the angle the games market seems to be coming from is very pro-console, many new games are being made with the console in mind, sometimes at the cost of dumbing down(Dues ex/Theif - deadly shadows/Fallout tactics etc).

@Maq i liked your sig so i adapted it

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by child of Thor
I think most of us wouldn't mind paying more for good value games.

Its just that when the majority of releases aren't of a good standard or value, and we go out and loyally buy one after another; it just begins to annoy you.
So you buy less until you here the word on some game forums. Pirates pirate more etc - everyone loses.

That gets to the old question of whether quality has declined. Which is a difficult one cause A. It varies by genre. B. It varies with what aspects of a game are important to you C. I think some folks remember the great games, and forget all the trash that was out there. D. It depends on what you use as a baseline.

Still, IF (as the article stated, and i dont see anyone really disputing it) the price of games has been steady, that means a decrease after inflation. All that theyre talking about is raising prices to offset that. I dont see that they need to INCREASE quality to justify that.

And yeah, sure an increase in price means a decline in purchases - thats just a standard downward sloping demand curve. Doesnt mean prices should never increase. The flip side is what happens to the marginal developers and publishers.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by child of Thor
I think most of us wouldn't mind paying more for good value games.

Its just that when the majority of releases aren't of a good standard or value, and we go out and loyally buy one after another; it just begins to annoy you.

well if you do that, no wonder they keep publishing poor quality games. Unless youre buying them the day they come out it seems pretty silly, given the profusion of sources on any game right after its release. Take RomeTW for example - several threads on CSIPGS, on Quartertothree, and even here its managed to breakthrough the morass of forum games. If I were to buy RTW it would hardly be a gamble.

[child of Thor]

@LotM,

True, but we(as in forum folk) are a minority in terms of percentage of game purchases. So i was speaking more about an 'average' gamer, who really only might see a game on the cover of a magazine in a newsagents or on the store shelves of the game shop. If i was that guy i'd be getting very fed up.

We all started like that at some point - Poly was the first game forum i'd ever used, that was a few years ago, and i've been playing since 1981. I'm a wiser gamer for it, but in no way a typical gamer.

And we need to keep in mind that we(forum/hardcore gamers whatever) are not the main target audience anyore, well not for the most part. That must have an effect on the markets directions and game producers decisions.

There have always been awful games, hopefully there always will be, we need a laugh from time to time, BUT a theme that a few of us have touched on here is i think an important one.

Some of those few good games from ages past are actualy still really good games now.

many of todays releases dont seem to offer that, which is a shame for gamers.

Now charging us more for these decent but maybe not classic games might not be the right strategy to take. Maybe they should concentrate on making good value games, ones that offer a bit of good old decent replay value, ones where not everything is given up to eye candy at the expense of other aspects of the game.

To much to ask? I'm afraid most probably so - thats how the trend of games making seems to have been going for some time, and with the current producers it wont change anytime soon. I personaly think its just a phase we have to all go through(the players+the makers), and once the madness is over we will all get to a better place

[Maquiladora]

@Maq i liked your sig so i adapted it

! Still Id rather own a Lemur than a cat tbh.

The PC is endanger of being left out in the cold in this brave new world. Not that i'm saying the PC is doomed - its much to versitile for that, but the angle the games market seems to be coming from is very pro-console, many new games are being made with the console in mind, sometimes at the cost of dumbing down(Dues ex/Theif - deadly shadows/Fallout tactics etc).

Especially with hard drives in consoles now, although I dont think console-only gamers will ever think much of a mouse and keyboard for playing games, so a few genres are safe for mainly PC there.

As for raising prices they'll make absolutely no difference to me. If my ability to download games was taken away tomorrow I wouldn't buy any games from proper retailers I'd go and buy them copied off the market for £5 or not at all. I refuse to pay £35 a game that isnt finished most of the time.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ninja Gaiden 1995

I'm talking about the new one, released earlier this year.

With the exception of Ninja Gaiden, these games are newer than 3 years and, thus, one cannot derive any improvement trends from them

I think you totally misunderstood my point. I KNOW they are all new games. That was my point. They are just as good as any of the 'classics' of years past, meaning that games are not declining in quality.

Once Morrowind oblivion comes out (2 years is plenty of time, despite what you say - though what you say invalidates your own argument) we can analyze whether the series has gotten better or worse. A fair comparison can be made between a Prequal and Sequal that is much harder to make between two unrelated games.

Then why not compare Arena or Daggerfall with Morrowind? I'd pick Morrowind, personally.

[pg]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Then why not compare Arena or Daggerfall with Morrowind? I'd pick Morrowind, personally.

Daggerfall was a revolutionary experience back when it first came out. Morrowind is an evolution, as it's just Daggerfall with stuff changed around, not necessarily better or worse(except in superficials like graphics). Sure in absolute terms Morrowind is better but if you are taking into consideration when they are released it's clear Daggerfall is the much better game. Daggerfall also offers unlimited replayability something Morrowind does not.

In regards to the article I don't really care if prices go up. The last game I bought with my own money was maybe EU2? and that was less than $40. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more but most games today are not worth it at all. The problem really is you don't know how much a game is worth until you play it. Demos don't really help anymore since they are either not done or done as an after thought. Even quality games usually have bad demos now. This is part of the reason why I warez some games to try them. Also it really makes sense to warez them. Most demos today are practically as big as ripped warez versions and I really don't care to see the ripped stuff anyways as it's usually 200mb opening/closing movies.

The truth is most games today are not being made for me. I am from a different era when gameplay was king. Today shiny graphics and good presentation is more important. Good example is Daggerfall vs Morrowind. Many gamers today love Morrowind but probably can't stand Daggerfall because of it's dated look. I have more fun with user made projects usually be it mods or open source games because they share my ideas on design. Even game companies I used to literally worship seem to have changed their ideas on good games be it id or Sid Meier. I will always have Doom 2, and Quakeworld because they are still being developed by the open source community and my old games are not going anywhere.

I will still buy quality games. I have a few console games I've been meaning to buy(most are Japanese made as they still seem to value gameplay) but haven't gotten around to it yet. This is mainly because I've been playing open source games or old games I already own. I don't see many games in the future I'm interested in. MMORPGs are all trash to best be avoided and they now seem to gobble up the majority of game development money for PC games.

Games aren't like books or movies. They are more like music to me. I find some I like and I keep playing them just like music I keep listening to. Once I play a game the subsequent clones are less attractive even if done well. I already played the original and most "evolutions" of the genre are not better just merely changed. Look at Quake 1 through 3. Quake 1 is the best IMO because 2 and 3 just changed things around. The core gameplay is the same. I almost always like originals best and few game today can claim to be original. You may think the problem is my tastes but in the future the same thing is going to happened to the gamers who first started gaming today. They may even go back and find the originals play better like some gamers I know(my younger brother is good example).

[lord of the mark]

another thing i dont get. All those of you who pirate big publisher games cause "theyre not good enough" why dont you buy games from independents, or get open source games, or whatever. If the big name games are so bad, why do you pirate them in lieu of supporting something new?

[lord of the mark]

I don't see many games in the future I'm interested in. MMORPGs are all trash to best be avoided and they now seem to gobble up the majority of game development money for PC games.

well lets see the MMORPG cos get revenue when they sell the game, PLUS they get subscription fees. Even pirates have to pay. And theres nothing equivalent on the console. and its a big market. No wonder theyre making em.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Sure in absolute terms Morrowind is better but if you are taking into consideration when they are released it's clear Daggerfall is the much better game.

Daggerfall was a buggy mess... I could hardly play it. Perhaps that colored my view of it .

[Maquiladora]

The truth is most games today are not being made for me. I am from a different era when gameplay was king.

Although to be fair, when gameplay was king the gameplay was fairly simple, and presentation wasnt really great either, you got a flashing screen with 8 colours one at the start and one when you completed it. Look at some Japanese games today, you can tell theyve been playtested to eternity sometimes, they ooze quality, but even those come with big opening FMV sequences now.

I will still buy quality games. I have a few console games I've been meaning to buy(most are Japanese made as they still seem to value gameplay)

Once I heard Sega Europe was turning down games like Radiant Silvergun, Strikers 1945 and Dracula X because "you only need to hold down one button" (wrong anyway), I knew the European and US console game market was ready to be flushed with sequels and basic remakes with only enhanced graphics all over again.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
another thing i dont get. All those of you who pirate big publisher games cause "theyre not good enough" why dont you buy games from independents, or get open source games, or whatever. If the big name games are so bad, why do you pirate them in lieu of supporting something new?

I can't answer as a regular pirate,(but i am feeling guilty over 'finding' the xcom games for free, even though i have bought them twice in the past) so i'll add i think when we've had conversations about pirating in the past, many of the guys here seem to use a pirate download to 'test' the game first, then if they like it they go and buy it.
I'm more anti than pro pirate in my sympathies, but as roughly 90% of pc games dont even bother to release a demo these days, that seems a fair argument from a consumer point of view, especialy in light of some of the other points above(like being burned many times with naf games etc).

And having just read that article you posted - the talk about 'next generation of machines' seems to indicate that it is again the console area that is driving the market, and the article about price increases.

PC user's and many of the games they will be getting in the future will become an after thought by many publishers, atleast that's what it feels like might happen.
Pirating is probably a big part of the reason for this pro-console approach. Still i think the industry is just taking the easy option, a short term fix for a wider problem, and this 'grab the cash quick' attitude may solve financing problems in the short-term, but in the long term they will just end up with a load of 'casual/sunday' gamers that wont spend their $70 a game anymore - they'll find something more entertaining to do, not being avid gamers like many of us old school pc users are.

So its all short term thinking driving game development at the momment, and eventualy the money will dry up. Backers/Financers will steer clear of game production if we continue on this tack - it may take another 5-10 years to reach critical mass, but we dont have a healthy consumer friendly games market at the momment. Costs are way to high, Hype way to important and 'bucks per hour' of entertainment given much too much importance in calculating the accountants returns, so to speak.

Only time will tell if myself and others are even remotely close to being correct, but it doesn't really matter. The sad thing from my point of view is that an industry that i've grown up being involved in and supporting since it's early days, and one that offers so much entertainment potential; seems to be slipping away from some of its core qualities.

Addicitivness, innovation, value/longevity, replayability are becoming rare words to describe many recent 'hit' titles. That is the thing i worry about most.

Still on a positive note, thank god for all the great games made previously, the bargin bins are full of many of them