Fable

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Space05us

Ok, then what's the point?

We'll all enjoy it, and share our adventures with our fellow 'Polytubbies.

But we already do that with other games. That in itself is not a feature.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Apoc seems to constantly be missing the point because of his irrational hatred for this game before it even comes out (and don't even try to deny it).

It's too much a caricature.

The best atmosphere I've seen in a game in the last few years is 'Beyond Good and Evil' which had 'cartoony' graphics, so, sorry your hater arguments are shot down once again.

You're the first person I heard that BG&E had good atmosphere.

And not being able to tell a game might be bad before it's out...both you and me knew CTP was bad and said so beforehand. You're being hypocritical now.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And we still haven't heard a peep about the main quests...

How much of Fallout's main quest did we know before playing it? Personally, I had little idea until I actually started playing. Same with Baldur's Gate. I'm sure the quest starts out as getting revenge for your dead family, but then takes a twist and you found 'Big Evil Thing' (TM), like normal.

well it least he didnt say its racist or will make kids act out

No, that's your job

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
To make an analogy, it'd be like when Starcraft was first coming out and I was excited based on videos I saw and features I was told were going to be with the game; and Apoc standing there saying X had been done in Warcraft 2 and Y had been done in another game and Z had been done in Game 3, so Starcraft really wasn't that innovative and people who were saying that it could be the best RTS of all time had no basis for that.

Oh, and the 'cartoony' graphics of Starcraft detracted from the atmosphere of the game so that was a minus as well.

That is not a good analogy. Blizzard said Starcraft would be good because of good multiplayer. They delivered on that. Thus if I had wanted to attack SC (which I didn't) I would pretty much have to attack the multiplayer segment otherwise it'd be a strawman. And I know that Fable can also be good because of the high customizability of the character, which I have conceded will be good if there is incentive to really play the character.

And Starcraft is a strategy game that did not run on immersion. And it's graphics aren't even really cartoony. The eyes are normal sized. People did not get Starcraft to imagine they were a character in the game. You don't need atmosphere in Starcraft, it's not an RPG. Unlike Fable.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And we still haven't heard a peep about the main quests...

How much of Fallout's main quest did we know before playing it? Personally, I had little idea until I actually started playing. Same with Baldur's Gate. I'm sure the quest starts out as getting revenge for your dead family, but then takes a twist and you found 'Big Evil Thing' (TM), like normal.

well it least he didnt say its racist or will make kids act out

No, that's your job

Well, I didn't even know about Fallout until it was out. With Baldurs Gate though, there was enough information available if you wanted it. Plus the excuse of Fallout II guys who were responsible for patches saying they were busy playing BG because of the story was a good indicator too. Dungeon Seige didn't run on the story, just combat. Same with TOEE. You'd think if they had a good story, they'd talk about it more. Since you've like to go cross genre in the arguement...we knew a lot about the SMAC (and SMACX) storyline before it was released

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

You're the first person I heard that BG&E had good atmosphere.

.

I saw that, i thought you were talking about Baltimore Gas and Electric

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[

well it least he didnt say its racist or will make kids act out

No, that's your job

No, no, ive been staying quiet on that

[Imran Siddiqui]

You're the first person I heard that BG&E had good atmosphere.

Then you don't get around often. Read the reviews if you want some more proof. I can't think of a game with better atmosphere. They constructed an entire believable world with a great story and you just felt like you were there.

not being able to tell a game might be bad before it's out

To Apoc, 'irrational hatred' of a game (which he has towards Fable) = not being able to tell a game may be bad. I guess it makes sense that Apoc can't tell the difference between rational and irrational slagging of a game. Rationality ain't one of his strong points.

That is not a good analogy.

Of course it is. You say it isn't because it slaps you down like the tosser you are .

Blizzard said Starcraft would be good because of good multiplayer.

That's nice, so your argument relies on Blizzard saying of Starcraft, "it'll be a good multiplayer game". I'm sorry, but they didn't talk about it like it was multiplayer only. The story and the different races (part of the story) where harped on. Basically it is the Half Life of RTS.

And Starcraft is a strategy game that did not run on immersion. And it's graphics aren't even really cartoony. The eyes are normal sized. People did not get Starcraft to imagine they were a character in the game. You don't need atmosphere in Starcraft, it's not an RPG. Unlike Fable.

Uh huh, Starcraft and other RTS don't want to immerse players in the game. That's why the HUD looked exactly the same whenever you played each race... oh wait. Blizzard's RTSs are well known for their immersion quality. And I didn't realize that if eyes are normal that means things aren't 'cartoony' ( again).

Besides, a game like Baldur's Gate I had absolutely no atmosphere and yet was a good RPG because of the story and gameplay.

Since you've like to go cross genre in the arguement...we knew a lot about the SMAC (and SMACX) storyline before it was released

Which was something very rare. How much do we know about Half Life 2's story? But yet, we think it'll be very good.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Besides, a game like Baldur's Gate I had absolutely no atmosphere and yet was a good RPG because of the story and gameplay.

BG had no atmosphere? I realize im limited as the only RPGs ive played are BG and PST, and I dont much care for PST's atmosphere, but I thought I preferred BG's medievalish middle european atmosphere (werent the buildings based on Rothenburg, or somewhere like that?) Is faintly tolkienish, pseudo medieval so deeply associated with DnD and RPGS that it doesnt look like atmosphere anymore? Or do most RPGs really have so much more atmosphere than BG?

[Felch]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

I saw that, i thought you were talking about Baltimore Gas and Electric

I thought I was the only one.

Originally posted by nostromo

I know that we find these kinds of missions in just about every other RPG. But Fable is probably the first RPG to sell itself with fed ex missions. And we still haven't heard a peep about the main quests...

It isn't trying to sell itself on the fed ex missions. It's offering them as examples so that we don't all know the story before buying the game. The game isn't selling itself on the missions, it's selling itself on the fact that just about every action in the game has lasting consequences. That's the innovation. Until we see it, we can't really judge, but we can be hopeful that it turns out well.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You're the first person I heard that BG&E had good atmosphere.

Then you don't get around often. Read the reviews if you want some more proof. I can't think of a game with better atmosphere. They constructed an entire believable world with a great story and you just felt like you were there.

Ok...read some reviews and yes it does seem like it has an alright atmosphere, but there was no unanimous view on it and there were some negative responses.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

not being able to tell a game might be bad before it's out

To Apoc, 'irrational hatred' of a game (which he has towards Fable) = not being able to tell a game may be bad. I guess it makes sense that Apoc can't tell the difference between rational and irrational slagging of a game. Rationality ain't one of his strong points.

Oh ok. Just keep ignoring comments I make like when I say I'm actually considering getting this game.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

That is not a good analogy.

Of course it is. You say it isn't because it slaps you down like the tosser you are .

No it doesn't. You completely ignore why I say it's bad because of the two different genres. And I still argued it.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Blizzard said Starcraft would be good because of good multiplayer.

That's nice, so your argument relies on Blizzard saying of Starcraft, "it'll be a good multiplayer game". I'm sorry, but they didn't talk about it like it was multiplayer only. The story and the different races (part of the story) where harped on. Basically it is the Half Life of RTS.

I know they didn't, but it was frequently the main point. Single player was secondary. And a lot of people talk about C&C storylines more than SC.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

And Starcraft is a strategy game that did not run on immersion. And it's graphics aren't even really cartoony. The eyes are normal sized. People did not get Starcraft to imagine they were a character in the game. You don't need atmosphere in Starcraft, it's not an RPG. Unlike Fable.

Uh huh, Starcraft and other RTS don't want to immerse players in the game. That's why the HUD looked exactly the same whenever you played each race... oh wait. Blizzard's RTSs are well known for their immersion quality. And I didn't realize that if eyes are normal that means things aren't 'cartoony' ( again).

They don't want to immerse and you aren't a character in the game that's out there fighting. Unlike Fable where you are the character fighting. You are just some genera/whatever in Blizzard RTSes. The eyes aren't the only thing. I don't see why you think they are cartoony even, especially considering the quality they had to work with back when SC was out. But seriously, cartoony graphics don't matter near as much in SC than an RPG. In RTSes they are just placeholders. In RPGs they are an avatar.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Besides, a game like Baldur's Gate I had absolutely no atmosphere and yet was a good RPG because of the story and gameplay.

It did have atmosphere. Not the best, but it was there. And you are so digging yourself a hole here. Do you even know why people say it lacked atmosphere? Because of the graphics of the Infinity Engine. Placescape Torment was the only exception because they zoomed in quite nicely in addition to the increased background story. BG also had some problems because there weren't too many really unique characters but that was greatly improved in BG2. But BG2 didn't have the best atmosphere because of the graphics. They don't have to be detailed. They just have to look good.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Since you've like to go cross genre in the arguement...we knew a lot about the SMAC (and SMACX) storyline before it was released

Which was something very rare. How much do we know about Half Life 2's story? But yet, we think it'll be very good.

We know a good online of it. And the developers have actually mentioned there will be a good story. The previews talked about the continued cinematic experience. You don't find that in Fable previews.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ok...read some reviews and yes it does seem like it has an alright atmosphere, but there was no unanimous view on it and there were some negative responses.

I don't understand this 'negative' view on the atmosphere of Beyond Good and Evil. It's an action/adventure game. Those games need to ooze atmosphere to survive.

Just keep ignoring comments I make like when I say I'm actually considering getting this game.

I like that. Bash everything about the game and then, oh, but I'm considering getting the game, so I'm not really bashing it .

You completely ignore why I say it's bad because of the two different genres.

Difference in genre doesn't matter. Atmosphere was the big thing in Starcraft.

Single player was secondary.

BS. Single player was the thing which was most innovative and impressed people and reviewers

They don't want to immerse and you aren't a character in the game that's out there fighting. Unlike Fable where you are the character fighting. You are just some genera/whatever in Blizzard RTSes.

So if you aren't the character there fighting, there is no immersion? Please! And you are saying that with a straight face?

I don't see why you think they are cartoony even, especially considering the quality they had to work with back when SC was out

I said they are cartoony, because if you think Fable is cartoony then SC definetly is. I personally think neither is.

It did have atmosphere. Not the best, but it was there. And you are so digging yourself a hole here. Do you even know why people say it lacked atmosphere? Because of the graphics of the Infinity Engine.

Um no, not the graphics, because it didn't feel like a real world. It felt like a quest giver placeholder. It didn't feel like a mideval countryside. It lacked the atmosphere. Graphics have nothing to do with it.

You don't find that in Fable previews

Most previews haven't played most of the games. Most of the previews have been with bits and pieces. And besides previews of the story is as much as KOTOR's info at a similar time and that had a great story.

[Felch]

Yeah, I don't see any cartoony-ness about Fable's graphics. I mean, they're not photorealistic, but they don't look like the Gamecube Zelda graphics either.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Ok...read some reviews and yes it does seem like it has an alright atmosphere, but there was no unanimous view on it and there were some negative responses.

I don't understand this 'negative' view on the atmosphere of Beyond Good and Evil. It's an action/adventure game. Those games need to ooze atmosphere to survive.

Not really. The Dig and Full Throttle weren't that high on atmosphere, at least graphically. It was largely music, voice acting, and story.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Just keep ignoring comments I make like when I say I'm actually considering getting this game.

I like that. Bash everything about the game and then, oh, but I'm considering getting the game, so I'm not really bashing it .

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You completely ignore why I say it's bad because of the two different genres.

Difference in genre doesn't matter. Atmosphere was the big thing in Starcraft.

Except there wasn't much. People rarely talk about it.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Single player was secondary.

BS. Single player was the thing which was most innovative and impressed people and reviewers

Now you're just being silly and not even arguing.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

They don't want to immerse and you aren't a character in the game that's out there fighting. Unlike Fable where you are the character fighting. You are just some genera/whatever in Blizzard RTSes.

So if you aren't the character there fighting, there is no immersion? Please! And you are saying that with a straight face?

I didn't say that exactly. Just that it's a lot less. Fallout isn't as immersive as Morrowind in this respect since it is third compared to first, so it relied on other things. Fable just doesn't seem to have these other things.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I don't see why you think they are cartoony even, especially considering the quality they had to work with back when SC was out

I said they are cartoony, because if you think Fable is cartoony then SC definetly is. I personally think neither is.

Well, that's just crazy. I'm not the only one saying it. You're the only person I'm hearing say Fable isn't cartoony.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

It did have atmosphere. Not the best, but it was there. And you are so digging yourself a hole here. Do you even know why people say it lacked atmosphere? Because of the graphics of the Infinity Engine.

Um no, not the graphics, because it didn't feel like a real world. It felt like a quest giver placeholder. It didn't feel like a mideval countryside. It lacked the atmosphere. Graphics have nothing to do with it.

Think about why it didn't feel like medieval countryside. Sound? No, Story? No, Dialog? No. All of those were generally praised. What's left? Graphics.

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You don't find that in Fable previews

Most previews haven't played most of the games. Most of the previews have been with bits and pieces. And besides previews of the story is as much as KOTOR's info at a similar time and that had a great story.

No no no. If it was supposed to have a good story, they'd mention that more. And say that it's good. They aren't saying that. They at least said it with KOTOR.

[lord of the mark]

i really enjoyed the sound and music in BG. Added to the atmosphere for me.