the state of PC gaming

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Which is easy to say in hindsight. Oh yeah, I knew it all along. Kind of like people who say, oh yeah, I knew Vader was Luke's dad before the end of ESB.

Except if you read the books.

[Dis]

I like KOTOR. what can I say.

I think voice acting goes a long way to making an immersive RPG. Much better than written words on a screen. Games like BG2, NWN, and Morrwind use writeen word.

But when the daughter of one of those 2 feuding families cries out: Shen!, my heart hurts for her. Even in my evil game I'm playing right now (yes I'm playing the game a third time- not much replay value, but there is a little), I had trouble choosing the evil option. I wanted her and Shen to be together. She wanted him so bad .

[DrSpike]

I agree. The voice acting is a huge part of making the story interesting.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You could barely move around in KOTOR.

You must have played a different game then. I could easily select a character in combat and run him to another area of the battle.

here was pretty much one really good basic attack and that was Flurry or the ranged weapon equivelent.

Just because you played with one attack doesn't mean we all did. I hardly did Flurry. I mostly did the Power Attack, but usually used Force Wave.

That big twist might have made it different, but not much. And it wasn't that big since it was kinda expected.

Which is easy to say in hindsight. Oh yeah, I knew it all along. Kind of like people who say, oh yeah, I knew Vader was Luke's dad before the end of ESB.

I'm saying that it shouldn't be so black and white.

Once again, it's STAR WARS! If it wasn't black and white it'd wouldn't Star Wars.

Yes, you can move him to another area, but you never need to. There is no advantage to movement at all.

The reason you can use different attacks is because you don't need to use the best because the combat is simple and easy. It's the reason people are able to stay level 2 until they become a Jedi.

No, it's easy to say with foresight too. Just like that movie where the kid sees dead people. It's an overrated twist.

Well, then Star Wars might be an inherently bad place for RPGs, just like how the Civil War might be inherently bad for submarine simulations.

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

Yes, you can move him to another area, but you never need to. There is no advantage to movement at all.

The reason you can use different attacks is because you don't need to use the best because the combat is simple and easy. It's the reason people are able to stay level 2 until they become a Jedi.

No, it's easy to say with foresight too. Just like that movie where the kid sees dead people. It's an overrated twist.

Well, then Star Wars might be an inherently bad place for RPGs, just like how the Civil War might be inherently bad for submarine simulations.

Come on, KOTOR was by far not perfect, but it was bioware doing a d20 system star wars RPG! It's story was better then anything the latest movies have come up with. In fact, its the most authentic star wars experience I've had since the original trilogy.

[Dis]

I originally thought flurry was the be all and end all of attacks.

but I'm finding power attack to be very powerful. Better than flurry imho.

I've never had a more powerful character than I now have,

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Pythagoras
Come on, KOTOR was by far not perfect, but it was bioware doing a d20 system star wars RPG! It's story was better then anything the latest movies have come up with. In fact, its the most authentic star wars experience I've had since the original trilogy.

Well, I found the space combat sims a more authentic experience, but the RPG was far better than the recent movies and that's why I like the game. It's a fine RPG, but overrated because the lack of other good ones around at the time.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Dissident
I originally thought flurry was the be all and end all of attacks.

but I'm finding power attack to be very powerful. Better than flurry imho.

I've never had a more powerful character than I now have,

my last time through I used critical strike rather than flurry. Kicked major ass. IIRC, crit strike has a % of stunning the enemy... KOTOR

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
2. Sys requirements - High requirements cutoff part of the market, arguably with little return in some recent games, but its countered that for most games sys requirements arent that high (I think we could do a seperate thread on that, one that got into the prices of specs of current budget machines, and even 2nd hand machines)

I suppose "high" is relative. Without knowing what the median system configuration is, we can't tell wether a game's requirement is high or not.

Originally posted by lord of the mark
3. Modding - Some games that are mod friendly have poor basic gameplay - the CTP's, MOO3, and NWN. OTOH there seem to be plenty of titles where modding has made little difference and NWN has a following (if MOO3 does not ) Most still think this as an advantage of PC games, and not a factor accounting for their weakness - though it may harm SOME titles.

Personally, I think modding is a bonus feature to have. Thus, this does not absolve the developer the responsibility to create a good game in the first place. IOW, it is paramount to have a good game. I reject the notion that having the ability to mod somehow makes a crappy original less of a fault.

Originally posted by lord of the mark
4. Did gaming become TOO popular, and thus too casual? Problematic, as its hard to classify games as casual or not, and its not clear why this would impact PC games more than console games. Best for another thread, anyway @ Spikey.

We may be able to draw a parallel between board games and computer games. No doubt that casual games sell more than deep games due to a larger potential customer base.

Originally posted by lord of the mark
6. This may not be the golden age of PC games, but there are still some good PC games coming out, and the infrastructure, from developers to publishers to retailers, is still there for a revival.

I still think the major problem with PC games is with game design. We have seen seeing a whole slew of sequels, yet original titles are few and far between. It seems that a good game concept that is well implemented will still sell nicely, as consumers have learnt to avoid crap (mostly).

[Imran Siddiqui]

you can move him to another area, but you never need to. There is no advantage to movement at all.

To get out of range or move to a better location for a ranged attack, movement can be important.

The reason you can use different attacks is because you don't need to use the best because the combat is simple and easy.

What is the best? Flurry ISN'T the best, Power Attack is, at least to me. You disagree. You have many choices to make in fighting.

It's an overrated twist.

Perhaps to you, but I thought it was great, better than twist the end of ESB. A great turn of events! Like BG1 had such an original twist .

then Star Wars might be an inherently bad place for RPGs

Then why was KOTOR such an utterly amazing RPG? Good vs. Evil makes for very good stories.

overrated because the lack of other good ones around at the time.

Not a chance. It's one of the best RPGs of all time and a much better RPG than Morrowind (which I also like). It could go against BG2, IWD2, and Planescape Torment and it'd STILL get the same praise, and blow the others away in sales.

I can't wait for KOTOR2!

[Traianvs]

KOTOR is nice (I'm in the unknown world now), with good voices and nice dialogue options. You really get the chance to be a fukcing arsehole, but then again you could do that just the same in the BG saga.
The landscapes and decors are magnificent though the in-door locations are a bit simple and repetitive.

The thing in KOTOR that annoys me a bit though is that the game is so easy. Combat is pretty straightforward. Just take your soldier, equip him with 2 blades, upgrade the weapons, invest in power attack and your enemy doesn't stand a chance. Flurry and other melee feats are useless anyway, except for dualwield of course. Same goes for ranged attacks. Power blast is good, the rest isn't worth it. There's also no real need to use captured weapons or buy weapons. I used the prototype vibroblade a very long time (because it was upgradable) until I found some decent crystals so I could dualwield 2 lightsabres instead of 1 lightsabre and the prototype blade.

The game doesn't require anything from you... even if I don't use power attack I just have to click my enemies and watch until the fight is over, there really isn't any challenge, no tactical possibilities. My character has such high saving throws, defense and immunities anyway that he isn't affectd by enemy force powers anyway. When I was captured on the ship and encountered Malak (and Bastila was captured) I could fight him, but that was a joke.. Malak could barely hit me; after 3 hits Malak fled already!

Stealth is completely ineffective in this game, even if you wanted to, there's no need at all to do it due to the slow movement and basically why on earth should you go in stealth?? In the BG saga that was something completely different heh .

Another annoying fact is that you can't quickly change weapons like in BG. you have to wrestle through the inventory, click a dozen times before you can switch from melee to ranged and vice versa, for all 3 characters!!! The whole inventory feels 'console' and very difficult to use... If I want to read a datapad I have to search through my entire inventory ffs!

[DrSpike]

I agree on the stealth and the interface. As for those finding it easy play through on hard. It's not killer hard, but it is harder than default.

[Pythagoras]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

Well, I found the space combat sims a more authentic experience, but the RPG was far better than the recent movies and that's why I like the game. It's a fine RPG, but overrated because the lack of other good ones around at the time.

Something I like about KOTOR is that its a little different every time you play through again. I liked watching other people play it. I said a lot "I didn't get this..."

In pure RPG terms its not as good as the Bioware PC titles, but its their first attempt at a console RPG. I'm happy (while were on the subject) that if PC games completly die, I can get Bioware RPGs on the Xbox.

[Grumbold]

I loved KOTOR because it was an immersive storyline with voice acting and few moments to jar you out of the fantasy. Every time the pathfinding sc.rewed up in an Infinity title I would be cursing the engine and not enjoying the game. The simpler combat and smaller party also helped the flow of the game. I love ToEE too, with its tactical turnbased combat, but KotOR beats it hands down for immersion.

I also disagree about the rise in piracy. I don't know a time when it wasn't possible to obtain a copy of a game if you were happy to get a stripped down version that might not work. I just know that my friends and I placed more value in owning the genuine article as our disposable income grew. What has changed is the sheer cost of making a premium title, so the need to claw back every last dollar from the public is more pressing than when a popular title could emerge from a bunch of college guys in a basement studio.

[Dis]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I agree on the stealth and the interface. As for those finding it easy play through on hard. It's not killer hard, but it is harder than default.

I do play on difficult . At first it was harder, but now I started using power attack, it's easy .

Once you achieve mastery, it really gets easy.

But it's still a fun game.