PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 6)

[Martin Gühmann]

Re: Very Repeatable Build 907 Crash(es).. Please advise!

Originally posted by CoreCore
I have attached a saved game that when loaded cannot get to the next turn, it seems to always CTD (Crash to Desktop).

I fixed that.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Obviously all their time was spent on units since they are running 80% unit support.

Well, the AI needs a good defense. So how many units does the AI need as garrison? Of course, needless to say that the AI would build less units if you just change the garrison settings.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Re: Re: Very Repeatable Build 907 Crash(es).. Please advise!

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Well, the AI needs a good defense. So how many units does the AI need as garrison? Of course, needless to say that the AI would build less units if you just change the garrison settings.

-Martin

Do cities produce garrison units specifically for other cities? Because when I used this order in BuildListSequences.txt for every build list sequence (to test it):

  BuildListElement { GarrisonUnitBuildList }
  BuildListElement { BuildingBuildList BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_ESSENTIAL }
  BuildListElement { AllUnitBuildList }

The AI city would first build enough garrison for itself (usually 2-4 units), then always build from my "essential" list. When it reached the end of the "essential" list, it would then start on "AllUnitBuildList", by building extra units for attack or defence outside cities, or clerics and slavers etc.

It would seem then that it's the "AllUnitBuildList" that has too high a priority, too high in fact that they never finish it so they can start building city improvements.

I saw something else strange. The AI doesn't maximise it's wages slider at all. When the AI had built all the happiness buildings and it's lowest city happiness was 78, it still left the wages slider on the far right. I guess to try and maximise food even further by lowering crime with higher happiness?

I tried changing the delta settings in strategies.txt but it had no effect apparently.

[Martin Gühmann]

Re: Re: Re: Very Repeatable Build 907 Crash(es).. Please advise!

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Do cities produce garrison units specifically for other cities?

There is something for it in the code, but I don't know whether it works.

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Because when I used this order in BuildListSequences.txt for every build list sequence (to test it):

  BuildListElement { GarrisonUnitBuildList }
  BuildListElement { BuildingBuildList BUILDING_BUILD_LIST_ESSENTIAL }
  BuildListElement { AllUnitBuildList }

The AI city would first build enough garrison for itself (usually 2-4 units), then always build from my "essential" list. When it reached the end of the "essential" list, it would then start on "AllUnitBuildList", by building extra units for attack or defence outside cities, or clerics and slavers etc.

It would seem then that it's the "AllUnitBuildList" that has too high a priority, too high in fact that they never finish it so they can start building city improvements.

Actually, it is more difficult, first of all there is a bug with the defense level. The defense level is a hard-encoded fixed number, that is compared with the army strength of your enemies. The army strength depends of the number of enemies you have contact with, the number of their cities and how much garrison units are there. So you are pretty fast at above the enemy strength that sets your civilization onto maximum defense. This means that you have to build 9 garrison units in each of your cities, if the GarrisonUnitBuildList is the first build element in your build list.

Building 9 units takes a long time, and if you discover new techs, you have to replace your units, which takes again time.

Unfortunately, I don't have a better idea how to calculate the defense level.

For the rest in your build list the AI should build all the buildings if the AI has the advances and then the AllUnitBuildList stuff.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Very Repeatable Build 907 Crash(es).. Please advise!

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann

Building 9 units takes a long time, and if you discover new techs, you have to replace your units, which takes again time.

When I tested with 2 units (1 defence, 1 ranged) for every garrison level, I saw the AI would still garrison it's most threatened cities with 12 units when needed.

The AI can't garrison every city with 9 units anyway, the build and support costs are huge, and can probably never be met if they upgrade units constantly too. We would have to lower all unit build and support costs or give free support for units in cities. Or increase production available too.

So do we make it possible to defend every city with 6-12 units, and/or do we make it harder for the human to make surprise attacks on weakly defended cities. Like in Ages of Man or Cradle, the AI's on your continent are really hard to make peace with, so they're always attacking you anyway.

[CoreCore]

Hi Martin, I would be glad to playtest the fix, would you like me to? I have been getting other CTDs and i would guess it might be a waste of time to post them if they are also resolved by this fix.

Hi Maquiladora , i have some interest in the random generation of terrain fixes you are working on, my issue is that the map is getting covered with many non-connecting small snake-like oceans. I actually have not seen a river!

I would like to eliminate this issue and instead see lake-like "oceans", perhaps feed into by rivers. And I would like to see rivers start at hills and/or mountains, and if possible end in swamps, lakes, oceans.

Is this a plan already in progress? How do i see the whole map without fog-of-war? how do i make "rules" about terrain layout?

TIA! =)

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by CoreCore

my issue is that the map is getting covered with many non-connecting small snake-like oceans. I actually have not seen a river!

If you want the oceans to connect more then increase the ocean, and perhaps increase the islands on the map settings.

I would like to eliminate this issue and instead see lake-like "oceans", perhaps feed into by rivers. And I would like to see rivers start at hills and/or mountains, and if possible end in swamps, lakes, oceans.

You can't specify where rivers start and end, at least not in the text files. You would have to modify the source code for that.

Is this a plan already in progress?

No. The only terrain fix I made was to try and eliminate the big continents and islands full of hills, to make the maps at least more playable again.

How do i see the whole map without fog-of-war?

When you're starting the game select "Launch Editor", then in the editor press the "eye" button to reveal the whole map.

how do i make "rules" about terrain layout?

You can edit the general map rules (amount of forest, jungle, rivers etc) in const.txt in ...\ctp2_data\default\gamedata folder.

Or you can edit map.txt (in the same folder) like I did, there you can change continents, islands etc.

[leinis74]

Dear All,

we tried to play a MP Game via Internet with the AE but unfortunately it didn't work to play, because he who enter to the game of the "creator" will cut off always at this moment as the game data will transmit.
Maybe somebody could help us, wherefore you could find our crash.txt below.

Version 2008-10-07 0x0043b1ca [?PostProcessTile@TiledMap@@QAEXAAVMapPoint@@PAVTil eInfo@@H@Z + 0x3fa] 0x0043b442 [?PostProcessMap@TiledMap@@QAEXH@Z + 0x92] 0x006213e4 [?Unpacketize@NetInfo@@UAEXGPAEG@Z + 0x334] 0x0062b6ea [?PacketReady@Network@@UAEXHPAEH@Z + 0x8a] 0x006383ba [?Idle@NetThread@@UAE?AW4NET_ERR@@XZ + 0x1aa] 0x0062a064 [?Process@Network@@QAEXXZ + 0x1f4] 0x0040c255 [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x105] 0x00406f84 [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394] 0x004069e5 [WinMain@16 + 0x65] 0x00800bdc [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134] 0x7c816d4f [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4f6f7]

[Martin Gühmann]

With the forum update, we replaced also our download section therefore the old Apolyton Edition links that pointed to our old download area are invalid. Here is the new link:

http://apolyton.net/directory/jump/c...oject-303/5288

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

I got a CTD (first in a long time!) while adding two labourers then removing them quickly.

Version 2008-10-08
  0x00425008  [?DrawLow565@Sprite@@IAEXPAGHHHHGGG@Z + 0x88]
  0x0041b78f  [?DrawDirect@Sprite@@UAEXPAVaui_Surface@@HHHNFGG@Z + 0x1cf]
  0x0041a0f4  [?DrawDirect@GoodSpriteGroup@@QAEXPAVaui_Surface@@W4GOODACTION@@HHHHNGGG@Z + 0x44]
  0x00411cc7  [?DrawDirect@GoodActor@@QAEXPAVaui_Surface@@HHN@Z + 0x47]
  0x00436c7b  [?DrawAGood@ResourceMap@@SAHPAVaui_Surface@@ABVMapPoint@@PAX@Z + 0xfb]
  0x00436f52  [?DrawResourceMapThing@ResourceMap@@QAEHPAVaui_Surface@@P6AH0ABVMapPoint@@PAX@Z@Z + 0x82]
  0x0043701f  [?DrawSprites@ResourceMap@@QAEHPAVaui_Surface@@PAUtagRECT@@@Z + 0x8f]
  0x00436565  [?DrawSurface@ResourceMap@@QAEHXZ + 0x1d5]
  0x0074a43c  [?Update@CityWindow@@QAEXXZ + 0x6cc]
  0x0074b474  [?WorkerSpinnerCallback@CityWindow@@SAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0xf4]
  0x006ce96f  [?ActionCallback@ctp2_Spinner@@SAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0x2f]
  0x00663dc1  [?RepositionThumb@aui_Ranger@@IAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@H@Z + 0x231]
  0x00664c15  [?RangerButtonActionCallback@@YAXPAVaui_Control@@IIPAX@Z + 0xe5]
  0x00645957  [?MouseLGrabInside@aui_Button@@MAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x107]
  0x006c87c8  [?MouseLGrabInside@ctp2_Button@@UAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x18]
  0x006688ee  [?MouseDispatch@aui_Region@@QAEXPAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0xa1e]
  0x00666685  [?HandleMouseEvent@aui_Region@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@PAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0x115]
  0x006665f8  [?HandleMouseEvent@aui_Region@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@PAUaui_MouseEvent@@H@Z + 0x88]
  0x00675539  [?HandleMouseEvents@aui_UI@@QAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@HPAUaui_MouseEvent@@@Z + 0x99]
  0x00675b73  [?Process@aui_UI@@UAE?AW4AUI_ERRCODE@@XZ + 0x23]
  0x0040be43  [?ProcessUI@CivApp@@AAEHIAAI@Z + 0x1b3]
  0x0040c26b  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x11b]
  0x00406f84  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x394]
  0x004069e5  [WinMain@16 + 0x65]
  0x00800bdc  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x7c817067  [__onexitbegin + 0x7be4fa0f]

I was playing my Red Front scenario, so this was after changing specialists in a lot of cities (around 30) beforehand.

[Protra3211]

Been playing the newest play test and so far the AI military has been the best I have seen it since the frenzy mod. I have played two short tests around 300 turns that I have not finished yet- at the highest level.In one game I was able to capture two AI cites near my border.Its always the case that in the early part of the game you can beat out at least one civilization.However the AI had joined two 5 stacks together and moved other units in and stacked as well.Then within 3 turns was able to recapture the city and defend it self. Well done Martin Guhman.In the other game by 121 turns in the AI near my border already had 11 cities and 76 units.The AI is doing a good job of spacing cities and building a good defensive force.

[andul]

Chrash 2 Desktop

I started recently to play CTP2 again. I installed the latest playtest version 907.
First of all I find its quite impressive that somebody still puts such a lot of effort in this game.

After several rounds it started to become very instable. After two or three rounds the game keeps crashing. It happens alway during the AI makes it moves. Furthermore I have the impression it happens more frequent if there are popup messages like "X Y stops war" etc. After reloading the same save game sometimes after pressing EndTurn it goes to the next turn, sometimes not.
I use the german version, but no additional mode.
I attach one of the save games and several other files.

[Maquiladora]

I attach one of the save games and several other files.

Obviously it seems there is a problem with the "revolting cities lose population" rule. Perhaps Martin will take a look at it (or not ), I would avoid that rule for the moment though.

[Martin Gühmann]

(or not )

You got that right , because I have already fixed it. So the fix will ship withe the next version of the Apolyton Edition. Until then avoiding that option is the way to go.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

You got that right , because I have already fixed it. So the fix will ship withe the next version of the Apolyton Edition. Until then avoiding that option is the way to go.

-Martin

Ah yes, silly me.

[Maquiladora]

So I made some changes to restore the original game, even slightly unbalanced it should remain unmodified. Everything else can then be kept neatly in the scenarios folder.

I found some other inconsistencies in the great library but didn't know which way to fix them:

Destroyer: GL says it can Anti-Air active defend, units.txt has "ActiveDefenseRange 1" but not "Defend: Air" so doesn't work.
Interceptor: GL says it can Anti-Air active defend, units.txt has nothing regarding active defence.
Leviathan: GL says it can active defend against air, sea and land, units.txt has only against air.
Morey Striker: GL says it can Anti-sea active defend, units.txt has "ActiveDefenseRange 1" but not "Defend: Water" so doesn't work.
Plasma Destroyer: GL says it can Anti-sea active defend, units.txt has anti-air defend.

Hospital: GL says it reduces overcrowding by 0, left over from CtP1?

Suggestions?