PROJECT: Playtest (Thread No. 5)

[Protra3211]

How many civs are you playing Maquiladora?I found that 8 civs on the largest map with some water ways works best.Gives time for the AI to build up and you room to expand without jumping into a war .
The playtest shows alot of growth,one civ on my border has build up to 40 cities,Peaceful personaliity so I need worry about invasion.But this AI faction has taken citiies away form other AI factions.All Civs have many stances between them over my 400 turn game.Like you I have many treaties like research pack.Had to use teck trades to keep up.Im in 6th place even with using lowest setting on milatary readiness(I know thats cheating im In the hall of shame)working the cities many options as best I can.On very hard level just using the playtest but next game will include the 700 build.
Has any civs in your game made any major treaties or a embassy?If not, I still feel AI diplomacy has been the best I have seen.Even have been given a 100 gold gift by my friends on my border.
Also has the code for Break Treaties in the diplomacy option looked at? Could it be changed for something else.Over all good work so far and with each upgrade you used caution not to remove any of the good things you have added.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Protra3211
How many civs are you playing Maquiladora?I found that 8 civs on the largest map with some water ways works best.Gives time for the AI to build up and you room to expand without jumping into a war .

Im playing regular map, 5 civs, Impossible, and max barbarian setting. Pollution on. All default settings when you install the game basically.

This puts all civs apart enough to expand, but close enough to have a war before the ancient age is over, which is what i like.

The only problem with this setting at the moment is theres too much water. Like you say, i think some small waterways are best. I had a war with a close AI, we were separated by a chokepoint and a small ocean. I controlled the chokepoint early so the AI decided to occupy the sea, which made it even easier for me on land. Ive attached a screenshot to show it, you can see the Greek cities i took to the right.

The playtest shows alot of growth,one civ on my border has build up to 40 cities,Peaceful personaliity so I need worry about invasion.But this AI faction has taken citiies away form other AI factions.All Civs have many stances between them over my 400 turn game.

I may have a limited view as only 3 AI are left in my game, but they are using diplomacy. Signing cease-fires or war mostly. None of them are peaceful personalities so its to be expected (high-minded patriot, evil genius, aggressive academic).

Their city building has been good. Theyve all slowed down now (all 3 around 20 cities, i have 29), but there isnt any good land left to build on, until we get to Sea Engineers.

Like you I have many treaties like research pack.Had to use teck trades to keep up.Im in 6th place even with using lowest setting on milatary readiness(I know thats cheating im In the hall of shame)working the cities many options as best I can.On very hard level just using the playtest but next game will include the 700 build.
Has any civs in your game made any major treaties or a embassy?If not, I still feel AI diplomacy has been the best I have seen.Even have been given a 100 gold gift by my friends on my border.

On the overall ranking im way in 1st, due to my wonder building/stealing boosting my economic rank. Military im dead last, scientific i recently took the lead in turn 250/1330AD by prioritising science when in peace - lots of scientists, then i went straight for Democracy after Fascism. Now on my way to Corporate Republic. If i was in a war theres no way id be skipping all the military advances like Cavalry or Tanks.

The only AI left on the same continent as me (Wales, Evil Genius) shouldve attacked me. Im weak militarily, i have the economic lead, what more do they want?

[Protra3211]

Thank you for the review.I see your spread out which is good .Tile improvments looks good.Im hemed in but have found some land on the other side of a water way.My skills are bit rusty as I made early missteps losing on wonder races or not building up forces and pushing units at my own borders to keep AI factions from over expanding.

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by E
autoupgrading - thats not cool. i think we need to add a isHuman check...I'll look at it, unless martin did this for a reason.

The are two possible reasons. The first one is that there has never been a isHuman check or the second one it went lost since your code was a little bit to complex.

Originally posted by E
The carrack sounds weird too.

Yes indeed, espeacilly as the movement type is calculated from the database and that calculation is dependent on the unit types in the army. And the unit type is changed on upgrade. So that's indded wired.

-Martin

[Maquiladora]

It was easy for me from the start for one reason - Ramayana Kind of a "cheat" wonder. I also like to get Aristotles Lyceum and Chichen Itza, but the AI usually gets the Lyceum, because they always get to Philosophy first. I lost both of these wonders to the AI in my current game. But got The Great Wall and Forbidden City as consolation. Just got Gutenberg's Bible a while ago. That plus Ramayana means i have no happiness worries except pollution now.

I noticed something strange with the Hold Reception command for the Diplomat. The cost says 500 when i hover over, and i can only use it when i have at least 500 gold, but it always takes all my money, which usually not that much because of the auto-upgrade (maybe 1-2k). I forgot why this is?

Another strange incident, the US kept pirating a trade route i had with the Welsh, so i asked them to stop and they said 300gold in exchange, so i agree. Then they start pirating again the next turn every time.

Seems kind of pointless having international trade routes at all if even the friendly AI always pirate them. And you can only stop friendly nations pirating (for one turn) by paying them, or starting a war. Time to start mass-converting the US to get my money back.

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
It was easy for me from the start for one reason - Ramayana Kind of a "cheat" wonder. I also like to get Aristotles Lyceum and Chichen Itza, but the AI usually gets the Lyceum, because they always get to Philosophy first. I lost both of these wonders to the AI in my current game. But got The Great Wall and Forbidden City as consolation. Just got Gutenberg's Bible a while ago. That plus Ramayana means i have no happiness worries except pollution now.

I think in the AE mod we need to set some excludedbywonder flags to prevent one city and one player from getting key wonders...

the other possible is add a rule option that limits cities to one or two wonders..

I noticed something strange with the Hold Reception command for the Diplomat. The cost says 500 when i hover over, and i can only use it when i have at least 500 gold, but it always takes all my money, which usually not that much because of the auto-upgrade (maybe 1-2k). I forgot why this is?

haven't seen that or paid much attention to it. have to look around

Another strange incident, the US kept pirating a trade route i had with the Welsh, so i asked them to stop and they said 300gold in exchange, so i agree. Then they start pirating again the next turn every time.

Seems kind of pointless having international trade routes at all if even the friendly AI always pirate them. And you can only stop friendly nations pirating (for one turn) by paying them, or starting a war. Time to start mass-converting the US to get my money back.

that is a problem. usually its the barbarian pirates that i have to contend with. friendly players we need to set 'canpiratethisturn' option that is linked to treaty expiration so that the AI obeys UNLESS they declare war.

on the other hand - how many times has China said they'll crack down on entertainment media piracy?

upgrade

found and fixed it

maq flags

Maq did you try the civflags?

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by E

I think in the AE mod we need to set some excludedbywonder flags to prevent one city and one player from getting key wonders...

the other possible is add a rule option that limits cities to one or two wonders..

Limiting cities sounds like the best option. So you cant set up one super-production city for all wonders.

that is a problem. usually its the barbarian pirates that i have to contend with. friendly players we need to set 'canpiratethisturn' option that is linked to treaty expiration so that the AI obeys UNLESS they declare war.

on the other hand - how many times has China said they'll crack down on entertainment media piracy?

Ive so far seen one Barb ship, an Ironclad, which sank my Coracle. Ive been building PT Boats but i havent seen anymore since.

I would like no piracy agreement to force the AI to not pirate for 10 turns or something. Similar to the no trespass agreement but maybe that should be longer term. Breaking either requires war under the agreement.

Maq did you try the civflags?

Yep Think i replied earlier in the thread about them. Here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...39#post4841239

Looks like it took some work.

The new flags arent in the position of the original flag though, theyre underneath the original flag. Am i missing something or is it a later revision where you made that change?

Regarding the coloured bar thing, something like this would be good:

[Maquiladora]

Just got a crash using rev700 AE Mod with the hotfix files E just posted.

  0x004f405a  [?GameObj_Access@@YAPAVGAMEOBJ@@PAV1@I@Z + 0x9]
  0x00538f1d  [?AccessData@Unit@@QBEPAVUnitData@@XZ + 0x34]
  0x00539413  [?GetOwner@Unit@@QBEHXZ + 0x11]
  0x0053d884  [?Sink@Unit@@QAEXH@Z + 0x12a]
  0x0049ac47  [?BeginTurn@ArmyData@@QAEXXZ + 0xdea]
  0x0049573f  [?BeginTurn@Army@@QAEXXZ + 0x16]
  0x004b5671  [?GEVHookCallback@BeginTurnArmyEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@@Z + 0x2e]
  0x00620401  [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QBE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x9b]
  0x0062126e  [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x40]
  0x0061e73b  [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x2d]
  0x00621043  [?ProcessHead@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x4b]
  0x00620fce  [?Process@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0xa0]
  0x00620f1e  [?ArglistAddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@@Z + 0x480]
  0x00620a90  [?AddEvent@GameEventManager@@QAA?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT_INSERT@@W4GAME_EVENT@@ZZ + 0xec]
  0x00449bfe  [?dh_endTurn@@YAXPAVDQAction@@PAVSequence@@W4DHEXECUTE@@@Z + 0x3d]
  0x004403fe  [?HandleNextAction@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0x190]
  0x0044020a  [?Process@Director@@QAEXXZ + 0x25]
  0x0040fe2d  [?ProcessUI@CivApp@@QAEHIAAI@Z + 0x24e]
  0x00410190  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0xa7]
  0x00408bef  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x400]
  0x00408616  [WinMain@16 + 0x74]
  0x009f5ddc  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x77e814c7  [__onexitbegin + 0x772ad1ef]

Seems to be on orange players turn, when they settle. Attached save aswell.

[Ekmek]

nope this is the problem: Sink@Unit

i fixed it in the code but until i get another build up you can fix it (and continue your game) by goining into units.txt and '#' anything that has 'Sink'


@Flag
i had something like that in mind too. and i may be smart enough now to create a switch where it gives you the old view or the view you posted.

[Maquiladora]

Thanks E. I had a look and nothing has 'Sink' in units.txt that came with the playtest or rev700.

I just disbanded that Carrack for a new one. Hopefully i wont see that problem interfere too much again.

Be great if you can get the flag setup like that Maybe you can just shift the original flag+number up above the health bar, and move your new one in. Good luck with it though.

[HuangShang]

hey sup guys, just figured that since i didn't post in a while I'd drop i line. I just have stable (September) playtest over the original install and the only real thing i noticed beside how unfamiliar i am with the original tech tree is that withdraw treaties are completely ignored...

i've found pirate treaties working tho. How does research treaty work now, haven't tried it yet

also a note about cokepoints, i always try to build cities there, since it's the only effective canal in the game.

Edit, oh yea the scenarios don't run, but the file get updated right? is there something i can do to run them?

[Ekmek]

Re: Revision Build 714

These files need to be installed first

LATEST PLAYTEST: September 9th 2006

2006.09.09.CTP2.Playtest.1of3.rar
2006.08.26.CTP2.Playtest.2of3.rar
2006.08.26.CTP2.Playtest.3of3.rar


Then install this

LATEST BUILD REV 714b: March 4th 2007

Rev714


Its a 'b' because there are somethings I haven't committed yet and something i'm working on now may take awhile (maq yours included).

The nice new features include the 'rules' screen where you should see some more options. in game you can check out the 'graphics' and 'gameplay' from the options window that gives you some toggles.

I haven't confirmed if there is a savegame crash, but let me know. keep your rev700 just in case.

Edit: Removed links. For an up to date version of the Apolyton edition click here.

[Maquiladora]

Got a crash using that new revision 714, on a fresh install with playtest etc.

Thought id try out the one city challenge.

  0x0053c5c2  [?CanThisCargoUnloadAt@UnitData@@QBE_NABVUnit@@ABVMapPoint@@1AB_N@Z + 0x5c]
  0x0053c54f  [?CanAtLeastOneCargoUnloadAt@UnitData@@QBE_NABVMapPoint@@0AB_N@Z + 0x60]
  0x00536d4f  [?CanAtLeastOneCargoUnloadAt@Unit@@QBE_NABVMapPoint@@0AB_N@Z + 0x22]
  0x004a862e  [?CanAtLeastOneCargoUnloadAt@ArmyData@@QBE_NABVMapPoint@@0AB_N@Z + 0x47]
  0x004943c2  [?CanAtLeastOneCargoUnloadAt@Army@@QBE_NABVMapPoint@@0_N@Z + 0x22]
  0x00730440  [?TransportPathCallback@RobotAstar2@@AAEHABHABVMapPoint@@10AAMAAW4ASTAR_ENTRY_TYPE@@@Z + 0xdb]
  0x0073095b  [?EntryCost@RobotAstar2@@EAEHABVMapPoint@@0AAMAAHAAW4ASTAR_ENTRY_TYPE@@@Z + 0x69]
  0x0073210c  [?InitPoint@UnitAstar@@UAEHPAVAstarPoint@@0ABVMapPoint@@M1@Z + 0x126]
  0x0072cedd  [?FindPath@Astar@@QAE_NABVMapPoint@@0AAVPath@@AAMHHAAH@Z + 0x5fc]
  0x00733e02  [?FindPath@UnitAstar@@QAEHVArmy@@HIIABVMapPoint@@H1AAVPath@@AAH2AAMHHHH3ABHHH@Z + 0x4ca]
  0x00730852  [?FindPath@RobotAstar2@@QAE_NABW4PathType@1@ABVArmy@@ABIABVMapPoint@@3AB_NABHABMAAVPath@@AAM@Z + 0x1fc]
  0x009c2a11  [?FindPathToBoard@CTPAgent@@QAE_NABIABVMapPoint@@AB_NAAVPath@@@Z + 0xea]
  0x009bc3bb  [?GotoGoalTaskSolution@CTPGoal@@IAE_NPAVCTPAgent@@ABVMapPoint@@ABW4SUB_TASK_TYPE@@@Z + 0x5c1]
  0x009b9195  [?Execute_Task@CTPGoal@@UAE?AW4GOAL_RESULT@@XZ + 0x33b]
  0x009a4776  [?Execute_Task@Plan@@QAE?AW4GOAL_RESULT@@XZ + 0x23]
  0x009a949f  [?Match_Resources@Scheduler@@QAEX_N@Z + 0xe7]
  0x009e4941  [?GEVHookCallback@CtpAi_ProcessMatchesEvent@@EAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_HOOK_DISPOSITION@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@@Z + 0x99]
  0x0061cec1  [?Activate@GameEventHook@@QBE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x9b]
  0x0061dc4e  [?ActivateHook@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@W4GAME_EVENT@@PAVGameEventArgList@@HAAH@Z + 0x40]
  0x0061b1fb  [?Process@GameEvent@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x2d]
  0x0061da23  [?ProcessHead@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0x4b]
  0x0061d9ae  [?Process@GameEventManager@@QAE?AW4GAME_EVENT_ERR@@XZ + 0xa0]
  0x0040f6a2  [?Process@CivApp@@QAEHXZ + 0x101]
  0x0040889e  [?CivMain@@YGHPAUHINSTANCE__@@0PADH@Z + 0x3ea]
  0x004082db  [WinMain@16 + 0x72]
  0x009f4e7c  [WinMainCRTStartup + 0x134]
  0x77e814c7  [__onexitbegin + 0x772b9aef]

Happens on purple players turn.

[Ekmek]

hmmm doesn't look like anything i modified. I'll commit what i have so the other guys can look too

[Maquiladora]

A little look at how the AI are doing in my game.

Pic below shows Egypt (purple), USA (green), and Wales (PINK).

Egypt is at war with USA, nothing with Wales, and Peace Treaty+no trespass toward me.

USA also has a cease-fire with Wales, Peace Treaty+no trespass toward me.

Wales also has no trespass towards me and Egypt, and a Peace Treaty with me.

I have a no piracy towards Wales, which they seem to be sticking to. AFAIR they can still pirate my "own" internal routes, but choosing not to.

All the no trespass agreements are what i offered to get the AI on my side. I have embassies with all, they all "respect us" and "have faith in us".

Egypt (20 cities/226 pop): Settling seems to be very aggressive. Notice theyve sea-transported settlers many times to setup more cities. Before id consider this a terrible AI start, not anymore apparently.

To the right you can see where the US has conquered 4 Egyptian cities, these are ALL now occupied with 12 units each. Modern and balanced armies no less!

The two Egyptian border cities, Athribis and Abydos also have full stacks of modern balanced armies.

Notice that the Egyptian mainland is not connected to that troubled border (Karnak is not connected to north), so theyve been transporting at least a few units in support. Some of which you can see on their way. It seems the US will drive Egypt off the US mainland eventually though.

They also have the biggest AI Navy, 9 Subs, 6 Destroyers. Probably about right for their requirements IMO. Mostly pillaging the US coastline.

USA (28 cities/285 pop): They obviously had most of unoccupied land, and it shows in their cities. Again aggressive settling for the most part. They would have easily colonised their South-East, had it not been for the Welsh landing units there. They were also occupied with Egypt in the North-West.

They have the biggest army in the game (including me), 62 M. Gunners, 53 Artillery, 29 Cavalry, 25 Cannon. No naval combat units at ALL, but they do have 2 Battleships in production, as the Egyptian pillaging has just started.

They may have the largest land, but a lot of it is crappy land in the North. Theyve done pretty well up there, setting up plenty of cities, to offset the quality. Lots of production up there too, is clearly winning the war with Egypt.

Wales (21 cities/248 pop): Terrible starting land here, but i can hardly fault their settling. Lots of cities in a small space, making the most of the land. Amazingly managed to land and settle on the US continent. Notice theyre still agressively transporting military there aswell.

There was a time they couldve easily crushed my tiny military, but perhaps with their terrible land, and the chokepoint i controlled, they were too busy finding somewhere to settle. Theres also the chance the Forbidden City might have done what it said it does in the GL, "prevent enemies from starting war".

Me/Rome (31 cities/608 pop): I wont go any further, so ill try to pick out some AI problems here instead.

Obviously growth is a problem with all the AIs. Even with their food bonuses they couldnt keep up their early pace. I didnt have exceptional land either (i terraformed it all). I started to catch up gradually when my better tile improvements kicked in. Farms mainly.

The AI at the same time was placing far too many mines. I dont know why the AI builds mines on flat land when its not as cost-effective as farms.

I also dont know why the Welsh AI hasnt built more nets/farms/terraforming around its desert cities, while saturating the cities around Cardiff with advanced farms. Effectively leaving it with a few super-cities and a loads of useless/slow growing ones. I dont have time to go further into it now though.

Another (but smaller) problem is overlapping cities, but i think this can be overcome if tile improvements/specialists are better. Maybe its good to overlap sometimes aswell, especially when you run out of land.