GENERAL: Cafe "Tamerlin" II

[Ekmek]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
The interface is pretty good and, at least IMO, very efficient.

I never got that game, atleast I don't remember it. but I've heard that about the interface so I should check it out. I'd love to improve ctp2's interface (i added leader pictures with my diplomod) and I think there is room for improvement.

I am not a fan at all of the strategical resources as they are implemented in Civ3, I even think that it is a real spoiler. Civ4 has greatly improved the system and I think that Strategical Resources should be a bonus (why not a great one so that the player is still looking for them) rather than a condition. When a stupid AI is unable to reach an agreement with you, though your proposal is fair, and when you don't have any luck about the way the said resources were distributed on the map, the game can become very boring. Even if Civ4 is a great improvement, some era in the game are boring while you are waiting for the scientific achievements that will allow you to build new things and cross a new boundary.

I took that into account. You cant negotiate for resources like civ3/4 but what I did do was that after the era when resource is available (always visible but sometimes you cant collect) then I have a building improvement that provides it. So if you don't have horses in the ancient era by the time chivalry comes around you can build stables that gives your city a horse good. Gunpowder lets you build an arsenal that gives gunpowder that you can trade to civs with out gunpowder so they can build musket warriors (Like arming native tribes). So I compensated on strategic resources. because i too have been burned without have gunpowder etc.

Oil is just a tadeable resource bu the city collecting or buying it gets a huge production bonus but you can shift that resource to other cities (but the selling city loses that bonus). Lumber works the same way but by the middle ages you can build a lumber mill in forests and then have the lumber good available to your city.

Peter's UnitUpdater2 allowed the units to be updated in a fortress, are your updater limited to cities?

So far its only cities I tried to create CanUpgrade flag for tileimps but it crashed for some reason so I have to try again on that one.

With the wedding getting closer I have less and less time available, I don't think I will have the time to playtest the game until july, but I will try.

Thanks again!

Your welcome! Stay focused on the lady!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by E
I never got that game, atleast I don't remember it. but I've heard that about the interface so I should check it out. I'd love to improve ctp2's interface (i added leader pictures with my diplomod) and I think there is room for improvement.

You should try to find the game or someone who owns it, IMO the interface was really far ahead from its competitors at that time. Even today, I am really surprised by the interface and its efficiency.

I took that into account. You cant negotiate for resources like civ3/4 but what I did do was that after the era when resource is available (always visible but sometimes you cant collect) then I have a building improvement that provides it. So if you don't have horses in the ancient era by the time chivalry comes around you can build stables that gives your city a horse good. Gunpowder lets you build an arsenal that gives gunpowder that you can trade to civs with out gunpowder so they can build musket warriors (Like arming native tribes). So I compensated on strategic resources. because i too have been burned without have gunpowder etc.

Two thumbs up!

Oil is just a tradeable resource bu the city collecting or buying it gets a huge production bonus but you can shift that resource to other cities (but the selling city loses that bonus). Lumber works the same way but by the middle ages you can build a lumber mill in forests and then have the lumber good available to your city.

IMO, you could simplify the system, woods and oil can be shipped to other locations so that the whole empire can use the resource. Remember that the germans used "ersatz" with some success during WWII and that today we could use bio-gazoline made from vegetables on a much larger scale.

Another building can be designed : "synthetic oil factory"

So far its only cities I tried to create CanUpgrade flag for tileimps but it crashed for some reason so I have to try again on that one.

Have you looked at Peter and Pedrunn's code in the Apolyton Pack Unit Updater2 ?

Your welcome! Stay focused on the lady!

You bet!

[Tamerlin]

By the way, CtP2 is available again in France in a budget edition for 5€. I saw it yesterday in a PC game store.

[Protra3211]

I have enjoyed playing CtP2 again!
The code updates have done much to make the AI play more human like in some cases. Better attacking tactics as well.
Hope the diplomacy bugs of late are only a miner set back . Maybe its only a single file that needs to be fixed.
Anyone come with a work around for now while we are waiting for it to be resolved? Not rushing anyone as it might turn out be complex problem.

[Ekmek]

Looking back here I guess this is as good a place as any to post some long term thoughts about the code.

First of course are the major bugs. I 'm tracking these at darkdust's TRAC website.
- Fix feat propagation in network games
- Fix nuking cities in network games - sometimes left a stale reference to the dead city around.
- Fix propagation of city defensive bonus in net games
- Make sure diplomatic proposals in network games execute at the same point on every machine.
-AI: Units escorting settlers attack
- Available goods limited to those generated on the map
- SLIC DEBUG problem
- New Game from Scenario Crash
- UI data not accessible for scenarios
- Fix random civ chooser for scenarios (world map)
-Control panel - tiles tab does not allow for other buttons to replace buttons
- AI doesn't do follow-on attacks (land and sea)
- wonder start messages
- AI declared war pop-up
- Declare War threat should not be availble when at war with player
- Always terminate a unit's sound effects when it dies
- Implement GetMostAtRiskCity slic function

Martin and I have the done the most to trac those, but if there any glaring defects please post them.

Longterm stuff I'm growing more interesting in trying to add more to the interface. I'm sure some may not agree, and please post why. But I'm mainly looking at a few issues:

controlpanel
- adding another button for tileimps in the controlpanel. noy critical but we could use
- i'm thinking AoM's extra buttons should be added, either with no functionality or make them short cut buttons to the rankings and wonders. Or even AoM like stats.
- adding a 'next' button to the units control panel tab to add new orders

diplomacy
- incorporate a lot of my graphic diplomod to standard, i'll probably make generic flags for each civ to avoid copyright issues (but still have my mod for download for those that like leaderheads)
- i think there is a way to add trading goods, by adding a good pulldown 9like when you request cities) and then a pulldown to say what city you want to go to and AI calculations should require you to offer equal or more gold then the best trade route for that good.
- adding a new way to bargain, offering and requesting multiple things

City Build screen
- is it me or shouldn't units, buildings, and wonders be in the same box?
- I'd also like to implement onepresent's all inclusive city window, but I'm sure that will take a lot of time.


Just some ideas to throw around. It may take me awhile to learn my way around the interface files but i think it will be worth while.

Whats everyone else thinking?

[Protra3211]

There are two things im wondering about .
The Break Agreement option in diplomacy -as we know it never worked right and is disabled . With the code can it be changed to something else or is it hard coded.
AI Intelligence Factor found in DiffDB file .IS there any background info on this and can be used to improve the AI?

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Protra3211
AI Intelligence Factor found in DiffDB file .IS there any background info on this and can be used to improve the AI?

Its pretty simple: It doesn't do anything, that's a leftover pre CTP1 and there is no sense in implementing it. So just ignore it.

-Martin

[Protra3211]

Thanks E for 609 build!

Will be giving it a try soon. Takes me a week at least to finish a game. Must be over thinking it.
Finishing up older build and still in a bit of a tug of war on who will win.
I had to bribe one AI faction with a tech before it would withdraw. That how hard the game has gotten. Im trapped between to Civs with 36 cities and both are expanding by beating up a Civ near them.
Not to far behind in techs (5 to 6) but have to go on the war path against a Civ I have been at peace with to catch up.
Have to give your Civ3 mod a try again. Is there a new update.The link for this mod is not working .Shows no file.

[Ekmek]

I playtested my civ3mod thi weekend. It required a few more tweaks so I'll post a new one soon.

As for 609 you can install and continue your inprogress game!

[Ekmek]

I ran across this thread:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=139808&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

We are going on THREE YEARS!

we survived the Civ IV better than most probably thought, probably due more to the system reqs of Civ4 than anything we did.

We got a new playtest out and things have actually slowed down quite a bit. From all reports the latest playtest is fairly stable so I guess we achieved our initial goals. But I guess we can discuss all this in a new thread... SourceDay is Oct 28th right?

[Maquiladora]

Its a shame, a few of the people posting their opinions in that thread last year soon disappeared from the project. C'est la vie.

[Protra3211]

I think if Stan had came out with Ages of Man sooner with a way to add to the scenario file folder it would helped to keep more fans intrest in the code.
Martin and E have been working hard to give us a better AI. I think the code work for true AI to AI diplomacy was a big step as before the AI would just burn itself out by staying at war with itself.
AI cites are better managed and have helped to expand its empire faster.
What about parts of AOM,Civ3 mod and E.s build combined into one mod. Could call it SUPER Apolyton AE mod edition

[Locutus]

Only two days until Source Day!


Anybody have any suggestions on how to celebrate? I don't have a lot of time but I'd be open to ideas. Maybe someone like E, Fromafar, J Bytheway or someone like that could write a perspective on 3 years of Source Code Project, kind of like I did for 3 years of CtP2? I'd be more than happy to post such a thing on the website and give it a little PR. And I'll be sure to bring this birthday up on the next episode of PolyCast as well, regardless of anything else we may or may not do. Any other ideas?

Speaking of which, in the first episode of our brand new official ACS podcast -- PolyCast -- I have a lengthy interview with Dale in which we talk a lot about CtP2, something which I think most people here would be interested in. See here.

*/shameless plug*

[J Bytheway]

Hello, Locutus. Good to see you're still lurking .

I guess I could try to write something, but I suspect others might do it better. Somewhat ironically, I've still never really played a game of CTP2 with any great seriousness.

[Locutus]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
Hello, Locutus. Good to see you're still lurking .

I'm not going anywhere, even if I'm not contributing anymore

I guess I could try to write something, but I suspect others might do it better.

Well, give it a go anyway. If others might do better, I encourage them to write something too, the more articles the merrier

Somewhat ironically, I've still never really played a game of CTP2 with any great seriousness.

No matter, the same is true for me with Civ4 and CivCity: Rome, but I'm listed in the credits for those