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Activision: How about CTP2 Patch 1.11 & C:CTP source code now?

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  • Activision: How about CTP2 Patch 1.11 & C:CTP source code now?

    I think it is about time we discuss the possibility of the release of the CTP2 Patch 1.11 and C:CTP source code to the public as well. Before we do that I need to explain why I consider it important and possible.

    1) CTP2 Patch 1.11
    Unless the source code of this particular patch is gone I can't find a reason why this should not happen. There might be some workarounds to solve the lack of this code but it would certainly make our work much easier with no cost to Activision at all. I mean even with no licence included in the code of the patch it would be impossible to run the game without the rest of the code or the game itself.

    2) C:CTP
    There is a significant number of people that play C:CTP and never migrated to CTP2. It is known that the first release of the series sold twice as much as the second one. Thus by fixing the bugs and improving several aspects of the game would greatly enhance and improve its value and durability. Also the code would greatly help to fix and improve the popular PBEM feature that is not working properly in CTP2, the space layer or other stuff that are better implemented in C:CTP. It is said that the C:CTP source code has gone forever and part of it survived through the CTP2 source code. The post-production support of the C:CTP lasted for several months with the release of two patches - 1.1 & 1.2 - so I find it difficult to beleive, during these months and having in mind the large budget of the project, that no back up of the source code had been kept. Unless Activision lost or threw the source code in the garbage, which I find it kind unlikely there must be somewhere.

    Apart from fulfilling our expectations and personal joy I beleive it could benefit even more Activision's public profile and perhaps increase the sales of both C:CTP and CTP2, two games relatively dead in sales measurements. Who knows, maybe this craze leads someday to a commercial release of a third succession of the CTP series. A game, derived by a very successful one and developed by the funs, open to further improvements to anyone interested would certainly gain the trust of people, with a practically never ending post-production support, and could have all the perspectives to become a commercial hit. And all these with no to minimum effort and resources on Activision's part. Sounds like a tempting one to me.

    What do you think?

  • #2
    As for the CtP2 1.11, Activision even mentioned that the source they're sending by is supposed to include the patch code. There must have been some sort of a misake.

    As for CtP1 code, it has been mentioned numerous times that such code does not exist. The programmers simply took the CtP code and started adding stuff to it, thus making CtP2. The codebase is the same, and indeed, we have found referrences to stuff from CtP1 in CtP2 code. I think one of Activision programmers said that they never intended to remove any CtP1 code.
    Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
    Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
    I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking Man

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    • #3
      Actually Mr Ogre mentioned that if I remember correctly, but several programmers that are currently working on the code confirmed that the patch is not included. Unless it is that well hidden somewhere within the code that people can't find it I consider it absent.

      I'm pretty sure that I've read about the lack of C:CTP source code as many times as you have The difference is that you're convinced and I'm not Well if the entire source code of C:CTP is actually unchanged and retrievable within the CTP2 then that would be great Can someone direct me on where to find it though or confirm your statement?

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      • #4
        The most unequivocal statement was from st_swithin:

        No-one kept the code branch of just C:CTP. It got assimilated into the CTP2 codebase, so IT'S ALL THE SAME THING, FOLKS.

        C:CTP DOES NOT EXIST AS A SEPARATE ENTITY. Unless maybe Mark Lamia has a record of it, but I don't think anyone on the team actually bothered burning a copy of the C:CTP codebase branch before we started modifying it for CTP2.

        Unfortunately, we also killed all the fuzzy logic AI as well, so I don't think there's any of that left. Too bad - if someone could have found a way to defuzzify it, it would have been the best AI ever written.
        The only thing that may be recoverable from CTP1 is robotcom.dll. This is where it's AI lives (including probably the fuzzy logic; it's certainly got some fuzzy logic files in there, but I don't know whether it's the whole system). IIRC, the original intent (c98 or 99) was to release the API for this so that, to paraphrase an unnamed programmer, "people could stop *****ing about the AI in the forums and write their own version". I don't have CTP1 anymore, but if somebody who has got it wants to, they could build robotcom.dll and stick it in the appropriate CTP1 folder to see if the version we have is the original working one. If so, then that means that anyone who wants to could rewrite CTP1's AI.

        BTW, this does not mean that you can use this stuff for CTP2. But, IMO, we're better off without it. It might have seemed like a good idea at the time, but CTP2's AI is much cleaner and more easily moddable:

        st swithin
        And the AI is totally tweakable via text files. I know this because I am doing it now. And I should also mention that the AI text files are about 10 orders of magnitude easier to use than in CTP1. ...

        oh yeah, one more thing: FLI rules are gone. No more scary, ambiguous, non-debuggable text files. ...

        VERY user-friendly text files, outlining the order of items AI cities build, types of units, and strategies. It's all un-fuzzy (i.e. Boolean) now, which makes it much easier to see what's going on. However, don't mistake "easier" for "less complex" - the number of rules doesn't determine the complexity, it's how they interact.

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        • #5
          Regarding the CTP1 code then I can only say that i have seen lots of code in there that is permanently commented out and i guess thats where CTP1 is now. There is a known fork of the CTP1 code though as it was ported to Linux and ill bet my best sitting chair that that code is still out there somewhere.

          About the patch: I dont think we can demand more work from Mr Ogre and the folks at Activision on this. We will get there soon enough by our selves

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          • #6
            what about permission to allow apolyton users accesses to beta material some one around apolyton must have been a beta tester for both ctp and ctp2 with it still hanging around
            "Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
            The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
            Visit the big mc’s website

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            • #7
              No, we don't have your War Walker either
              Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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              • #8
                somebody has to and don’t forget we probably have the code now because of my fondness to that walker
                "Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
                The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
                Visit the big mc’s website

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Big Mc
                  somebody has to
                  What makes you think that? Multiple people (including Activisioners) have told you that beta art wasn't saved.

                  Think of it this way: when you write a paper (for school or work or whatever), how often do you keep backups of intermediary versions of that paper? Usually one only keeps a copy of the latest version, overwriting earlier versions of the file whenever you save it. It works the same way with designing PC games...
                  Administrator of WePlayCiv -- Civ5 Info Centre | Forum | Gallery

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                  • #10
                    Big Mc, why don't you test your Paint shop skills and finish it yourself

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                    • #11
                      I tried I am missing two shots of the thing or i could
                      "Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
                      The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
                      Visit the big mc’s website

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                      • #12
                        The Big Mc, the game called "Massive Assault" should give you a good starting point if you are looking for a war walker in the Battletech genre.

                        You should also have a look at "Titans of Steel"...
                        "Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill

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                        • #13
                          I did do some concept art for more war walker but it is hard to try and keep them in the same ctp style

                          "Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
                          The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
                          Visit the big mc’s website

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
                            The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
                            Visit the big mc’s website

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The Big Mc
                              I did do some concept art for more war walker but it is hard to try and keep them in the same ctp style
                              Hey they're looking good though

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