PROJECT: Source Code: Project Team

[Curiosity]

Don't worry guys, I'll be playing the game a bunch too. If I'm working on the AI then I really need to get up to a high skill level fast (y'all have a couple of years head start!) so expect lots of stupid questions in the strat forum.

[Ekmek]

I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

[Solver]

Well, CtP is smaller than Civ 3... less art, I guess is used. And the absence of AI surely helps .

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by E
I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

The path finder is Civ III is a massive memory eater. If you are giving a pathed move order to a unit, notice how long it takes the path to catch up to where you have moved your mouse.

[Solver]

And another thing with Civ 3 is AI patrols. While Civ 3 AI is much more effective than CTP2 AI (not taking mods into account), it still moves all of its non-garrisoned units around every turn. Basically patrolling his own land, which is stupid, given how there's no fog of war in your territory.

I hear that the latest patch allows you to disable such patrolling, which is said to decrease turn times by a lot.

[TheArsenal]

Originally posted by Solver
And another thing with Civ 3 is AI patrols. While Civ 3 AI is much more effective than CTP2 AI (not taking mods into account), it still moves all of its non-garrisoned units around every turn. Basically patrolling his own land, which is stupid, given how there's no fog of war in your territory.

I hear that the latest patch allows you to disable such patrolling, which is said to decrease turn times by a lot.

Even more stupid if you consider Civ III has are no stealth units patrols can accidentally bump into - which (as someone who knows nothing about programming, AIs, etc.) assumed the patrolling was for.

[Locutus]

I'm noticing on my computer CTP2 takes a lot less memory or time than civ3. It cant be graphics so what is slowing civ3 down, I hope the apolyton patch wont have this effect...

Civ3 is poorly programmed.

[Matthew Hayden]

Civ3 is poorly programmed.

What isn't these days?

[Locutus]

Very true...

[Dale]

Yeah, but it's not the design team or programmers faults it's poorly programmed, it's the rush to have to get the game out on publisher schedules. That causes designers and programmers to take the first solution, not necessarily the most efficient one.

Sometimes I think publishers should just piss off and let a game company actually work a game to completion!

[Solver]

Dale. Most of the time, I hate publishers. I hate Infogrames/Atari - they have caused a few of screwups with Civ 3. I hate Activision publishing dept. for pressing on CtP2 developers.

[child of Thor]

Yes it is a sad state when these companies are basically screwing up everybodys fun, and in the long run will drive more of their customers away, people like me.
I'm not sure when the power-shift took place, but basically if you are a games designer/programmer in the industry today, to sell your game in the high street market you need one of the big publishers. And as i understand it they will own you and your game as soon as you sign that dotted line.
Its sad to think of all those creative minds out there, working in a potentialy huge creative field, having themselves and there ideas treated with much less respect than their peers in the art world or amongst novelists.The publishing houses seem to be behaveing just like pimps, secure in their relative finacial muscle.
And the more i hear about and witness their mis-management of 'our'(we created it by buying the produce) industry, the less main-stream software i end up buying......you'd think with the rate at which companies in this industry come and go, someone would put two+two together and understand why and how to put things right....

ON TOPIC:
So i guess untill we hear some news none of us can do much in our respective areas.........still it gives us more time to discuss the things that need to be done to get this game perfect polish polish polish - we'll polish it forever

[Keygen]

We have no source code in our hands nor a promise for that. It will have to go through top managers and several departments before any decision is made and that would take time.

It could be decided to release part of the source, under strict control and/or limitation or not release it at all. If I was Activision and had no purpose to revive the Call to Power series I would release the code but hold the rights.

I am optimistic and I think that would be the case but bare in mind that holding the rights would mean that no sequel to the series or distribution of the entire code with any changes as is or compiled could be possible without the permission of Activision and in the event of no profit I would doubt they would give it. So all I can see right now is patches correcting bugs and more sofisticated mods and addons.

Perhaps in the future - if the source code is released to the public after all - some company would buy the rights and continue the sequel using the code (I would if I could ) or this community come to an agreement with Activision or someother publisher to develop a sequel and release it commencially.

I do offer myself for the project lead but very few know me here. I am well known in the CtP1 community and it is CtP1 that I have great knowledge about and not CtP2.

In any case it is in my belief that more than one projects would derive from the release of the source code perhaps even in this site and some effort should be put ot merge these into a single one.

[LDiCesare]

Its sad to think of all those creative minds out there, working in a potentialy huge creative field, having themselves and there ideas treated with much less respect than their peers in the art world or amongst novelists.

The difference with novelists is simple: Most publishers are limited to niche novels (f.e. police, sci fi, fantasy, romance, pornography, sometimes this is not by genre but something less tangible) and there are many many many of them. Plus many novelists don't make a living out of their books. This can be a passtime, or a partial remuneration. Games, on the other hand, require lots of people to code, draw, etc. They are becoming increasingly complex, so people who work on games as a passtime can't compete. Publishers are not that many either. There are a few big houses, but usually they all do all kinds of games. Some exceptions exist, like Strategy First, but they are quite unable to sell outside the U.S. or get translations done.
What this means is: You need money to get a game started, and if it is crap, you have to get some money out of it anyway. For novels, if the novel is crap, the publisher won't publish it, but they won't have lost a cent either. What publishers need is to buy the game after it is done, not to fund it. That way, they could say 'Who wants to make CtP3', get their hands on several projects, and pay only the most successful project, or not at all. Developpers and designers would then have to make a better job to get paid. But that would be very hard for them because they don't have the money to do so.

[J Bytheway]

Originally posted by Keygen
I do offer myself for the project lead but very few know me here. I am well known in the CtP1 community and it is CtP1 that I have great knowledge about and not CtP2.

I second that . I'm sure Keygen has what it takes to be project leader (mostly dedication) and the slightly more distant stance could be an advantage.

Besides, noone else has offered to take the job, so Keygen must be the best of the bunch .