DESIGN: CtP2 Source Code released - our actions [brainstorm & discussion]

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by Chris B
3) Fix Revolution=Game Crash bug.

This is a Diplomod 3.6, just cut out some code from Diplomod.slc and the bug is fixed. I think it has to do something with the embassy tracking functions Dale made, obviously his arrays are the problem. Actual I expect an array out of bounce error message, but it must be something else, also the content of the arrays is with one more Civ screwed up.

Well some in-game Slic functions for embassy tracking could replace this, maybe we should reconsider the whole stuff with embassies and how they are created.

For trade I think trade goods should not only give gold to the civ but also food production, commerce and science. Of course not only as terrain boni but also as trade boni for the trade receiving city.

-Martin

[MrBaggins]

I was thinking that we should implement Goodmod fields in the terrain.txt fields. We are on the same page

Oh, and fix all the good related functions in slic, including adding, changing and removing goods, of particular types.

[Gilgamensch]

MrBaggins,

I was reffering to your International/National difference...... Not sure if the human couldn't take advantage of it.

[MrBaggins]

If we can base this on cost analysis (which the AI can do well) and ensure that the AI can build better, then the AI would seem to be competitive, at first glance.

Also consider that trade encourages peace, which should extend the game, and deepen the experience.

[Solver]

Okay, a next thing - what about improving the Random Map Generator? IMHO, the Civ 3 RMG is better... CtP2 creates some blobs of land too often, when I actually want continents that are shaped, uh, like continents.

[ahenobarb]

What will happen with open source is that there are going to be several branches/varieties of CTP2 that develop over the next few years. Anybody here remember Rogue, Hack, and Larn (Unix game in the mid 80's)? I think we should focus on lifting the mod limits and fixing the bugs first. Once we have a clean version of the game then it's time to move on to implementing new features.

However, no everyone will want the same features, so the game will develop in branches (Will Cradle need a "space" feature?). There should be an official Apolyton game (CTP2 with the bugs fixed) that everyone can use as a reference/starting point.

It is difficult enough combining SLIC scripts -- Cradle and City expansion anyone? -- imagine combining source codes. If you want to do that, you need to get a C compiler. To the greatest extent possible we should try to make changes in total to the .cpp files that were used to craete the game. This way you can slip in a new .cpp file to your compile and use the changes fairly easily. The trouble will come with the small tweaks that require manually altering small parts of the code.

Check out freeciv to get a glimpse of where we are headed! http://www.freeciv.org/

[Solver]

I was thinking along the same lines... and yes, there are going to be many mods. I do believe that something with an improved AI ( a bit), bugs fixed, and misc. addons will be the "official baseline version", while the other enhancements made will allow modders to produce more and better mods.

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by ahenobarb
To the greatest extent possible we should try to make changes in total to the .cpp files that were used to craete the game. This way you can slip in a new .cpp file to your compile and use the changes fairly easily. The trouble will come with the small tweaks that require manually altering small parts of the code.

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, we should probably consider selecting people to be the "Jedi" for different .cpp files. That is, they manage a team of people working on changes to a specific .cpp file and once it is functioning, they post the official new version of the file for use in the next compile.

This will work until the baseline version is created. After the baseline is done, chaos reigns!

[Solver]

Well, when there are many programmers, of course, they do it that way, some work at GUI, some at AI, some at MP, and whatnot.

However, with our (very) limited man resources, I believe that every programmer on the team will end up changing code from every area.

[Locutus]

As for Trade, I would personally (eventually -- this is long-term thinking) like to completely revise the trade system. In real history, trade is of the utmost importance for all civilizations. Up until recently, historians used to think that civilizations were built on war (which at least partially explains why war has always been such a major ingredient in Civ games), but new research has proven this to be false: civilizations are built on trade. The very first civilizations that ever existed (Sumer, Minoans, Harappa, Shang, Caral, etc) came into existance because they developed increasingly complex ways of organizing society to cope with increasingly large and complex trade networks. In more recent times, colonial empires accumulated an unprecedented amount of wealth and power thanks to trade networks of unprecented scale. And today the US is a world power largely owing to the many American companies selling American products all over the world.

I'd like a trade system somewhat similar to Civ3, but more advanced: like Civ3, you need certain goods in your recourse box before you can build certain units. To get these resources, you must have them in your radius, or you must be connected to a network. But contrary to Civ3, IMO this shouldn't be a road network but rather a trade network. If you have a city with iron and a city with gold, you can only take advantage of the iron in city 2 by creating an iron trade route with city 1. The same with the gold: city 1 needs a gold route with city 2 to be able to take advantage of the gold. Both building and mainaining trade goods should come at a cost, which similarly to PW should be subtracted directly from the national income (not sure yet which resource(s) should be used for this). So no more building of Caravans.

Aside from that, I agree with MrBaggins that foreign trade should be much more valuable than national trade and that trade should contribute to science as well.

Of course, this system of mine would be a huge change with major implications on other parts of the game (the AI, for one thing). It would be a huge undertaking to implement and I'm sure not everyone will like it, so it shouldn't be part of a "official baseline version", to use Solver's terminology.

[Solver]

Excellent said Locutus, although that really does sound far-fetched. I wonder what SLIC enhancements would we need to create to make a similar trade model implementable through SLIC.

As for the current trade model, we can beef up the formula that determines profit from trade, and add a benefit... have it go to commerce, not gold, maybe, or have the total trade income broken proportionally into gold and science by using the civ-wide science setting.

[The Big Mc]

I thick to start with we should add on some slic functions for less confident programmers for example a add slave command

Also adding city buildings that have a tile improvement attached like the city wall so people don’t have to go throw the source code this would open the bottom end of ctp to the part time moder who does not know c or slic.

Then we can add flags to other files like a flag in units that say can be enslaved so the enslaver is not forced to seek out settlers it can enslave special units like the slaver. As well as small wonders which any nation can build.

[Solver]

On my wishlist would be a "special attack chance" flag. E.g., I want an Infector, that has a 25% chance of infecting a city, and an UberKrux unit that has a 75% of doing so.

[The Big Mc]

yes my point is we are all getting carried a way with possible new and complicated mod using the source code but we should also help the people on the forum who can't use c

[Solver]

We will... SLIC enhancements will allow people to create mods with newver and bigger stuff.