Good Possibilities

[Ekmek]

I dont know if any one has gotten anywhere on any of this but I thought of an idea that might make it do-able. But it involves making the resources units. If SLIC could be made to make these units only appear on the tile where the resource is located and these units be non-moving babarian units, that have to be captured then you use the UPGRADE Slic to convert these resources into units. This also makes a few things possible:

1) the "resource units" will appear after certain techs, so you'll still have the resource tile improve for regular trade but being able to use it will require certain techs.

2) you can steal resources in another player territory. There is already a CTP2 unit that could serve as a corporation doing that. Or a the eco-terrorist can destroy them.

3) it could be randomized where certain tile improvements have larger quantities of the resource (i.e oil, a square in the ME makes 5 oil units and one in pensylvania only 2, and even eventually after a few turns none.)

4) Resource units can be traded similar to civ3 since units can already be traded in CTP2

5) The hard part would be military units that require more than one resource.

6) using theses units to build bldgs, unles it can be slic that the resource unit has to be disbanded and it creates a non available city improv and then subtracts a certain number of PW.

I'm sorry I'm not a SLIC, just trying to help. I figure you guys probably are on to something better anyways.

[ahenobarb]

Re: Some opinions and suggestions

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG

OIL = Ok i can see why you want this in ancient times. But really the usage of such a good in those times was minimal compared to today, the value of the good would have to DRAMATICALLY increase during time. However the major problem with having it available from Ancient on is. Me player settle everywhere where oil is knowing it will be worth a bomb in centries to come. Not only is this unfair but its historically incorrect as no Civilization would have known how important Oil would become *obviously*

If it's not to late to comment. Instead of increasing its value on a point system, why not just make it so that you can't build gasoline powered units or city improvements without it. There are SLIC events to determine if you are receiving a specific good, so you could check every turn for this and If you're not getting oil, you can't make any more tanks. And to make it more interesting, if you lose your supply of oil, maybe your gas powered unit stop in their tracks!

Does anyone know if it is possible to create a good that is not specific to a terrain type? I would like to add some other goods, but I don't want to have to remove any of the 4 goods already assigned to each terrain type. Is it possible? Or is it pie-in-the-sky?

[J Bytheway]

I believe you would have to create new terrain types which duplicated the existing ones in all ways except the goods which were on them. I'm not sure of what other complications this might cause, though...

[child of Thor]

Its been awhile since much was heard on this project, i'm hopeing no news is good news. If Martin(or anyone else) has got any further with this a bit of news might be nice
I want to go to war over oil

[ahenobarb]

Originally posted by J Bytheway
I believe you would have to create new terrain types which duplicated the existing ones in all ways except the goods which were on them. I'm not sure of what other complications this might cause, though...

Thanks J! I will have to try that.

[Martin Gühmann]

Well if someone can provide a tech tree for the start, I can start on the slic work in the next vacation.

-Martin

[Pedrunn]

Those ideas for goods are terrific and i even have some of my own but what makes me not stimulated to do so is the lack of buy good option in the trade manager.

One day i may be able to see a trade system like civ3 or CTP1 the rest strategic resources and special bonus can be done through slic.

[Ekmek]

If there were good units you could trade goods by selling the units/trading them for gold it would be like civ3

or Could we make a special unit, like corporate branch, that once it engages/attacks the city it purchases the good from that city (being it from another nation? Have the price be based on a formula of good, a preset AI value and the population size. A pop up to pick the good to buy would be possible or have specific good purchases.
This could also work with my "good unit" idea where the good would travel like civ2 caravans and "attack" the city and return gold based on a calculation.

just a suggestion

[Pedrunn]

I believe moving units for when you did not had to is a bit boring. My idea is to buy a good when clicking in a citv that has the good you want. Them a pop up message would appear with the trade negotiation(eg. how much? How many? How long?, etc..) and of course teach the AI to be a good trader. Still this systme is not good enough for me. I just think the trade should be done in national level. I dont want to add micromanagement to the game like look for a city that has the good in the map.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Pedrunn
I believe moving units for when you did not had to is a bit boring.

True, this is why I have converted the Cradle Updater to use it with the Apolyton Pack, I was bored moving tons of units on the map.

I just think the trade should be done in national level. I dont want to add micromanagement to the game like look for a city that has the good in the map.

Once again I agree, one of the greatest pleasures with CtP2 is that you are freed of the excessive micromanagement frequently encountered in many strategical games.

[porlcass]

Having oil as a strategic resource would make for some good game play, but you wouldn't want to make it all powerful. Possible alternative to oil power sources are:
- Enthanol, available with advanced distilling techniques, and can be based on a (more plentiful) sugar good. Ethanol should be available only marginally later than oil powered vehicles. Vehicles powered by ethanol tend to be slower (read 1 less movement) and corrode faster (read higher upkeep).
- Solar, requires a certain number of desert tiles for the the idea be available, and it should be available a bit later than oil and ethanol. Solar powered vehicles should be a little bit slower, and have a 'fuel supply' (ie. batteries) that is replenished by ending a turn in a city, desert, desert hill or desert mountain tile (obviously the desesert mountain must have a road on it...). Running out of fuel does not destroy the vehicle, but causes it to have only 1 movement point until it's fuel is replenished. On the plus side, their upkeep cost is lower.
- Fuel Cells - This should come later than all of the above technologies. Fuel cell powered vehicles should be a bit slower, but otherwise equal to Oil powered vehicles.
- Cold Fusion - This would come much, much later, and eliminate the strategic advantage of oil.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by porlcass
- Solar, requires a certain number of desert tiles for the the idea be available, and it should be available a bit later than oil and ethanol. Solar powered vehicles should be a little bit slower, and have a 'fuel supply' (ie. batteries) that is replenished by ending a turn in a city, desert, desert hill or desert mountain tile (obviously the desesert mountain must have a road on it...). Running out of fuel does not destroy the vehicle, but causes it to have only 1 movement point until it's fuel is replenished. On the plus side, their upkeep cost is lower.

Welcome Porlcass,

The alternatives to oil supply is a very good idea though I think a military solar vehicle would be impractical as the solar cells are necessarily on the armor of the vehicle.

[Ekmek]

Maybe we should make a set of standard, non-resource required units and the more elite units/high-tech require resources. just a thought as we hopefully get closer to implementing this

[MrBaggins]

A solution for oil in all terrains:

Have a 'map' stored in an array, the same size as the actual map. It has -1 for no resource in that square, 0 for Oil, and so on and so on.

You randomly generate 'hidden' resources... like oil... uranium perhaps... basically any resources that would have been not discoverable early... since they weren't in plain sight. (you might still have oil in deserts... where it leaked up visibly...)

You use a survey team (and) survey ship unit, to find the resource. When they stop and use the fortify command, they search the immediate area (how large a radius depends on tech?) If they find a resource, a message is given... and you're told how close.

If you have the survey team over the site AND there is a resource AND you own the square, then you can plant a drilling rig/platform/whatever, as appropriate for the hidden resource.

The AI would be able to programmatically know where the oil was, and it would build a new city nearby/build fortresses/etc/etc as was appropriate to secure the resource... or the AI gets fudged locational bonuses, by putting 'reachable' hidden resources nearby.

[EDIT ^^^ ] or you plant resources early... wait till the each AI has x number of cities, then plant a random number near random cities. Distribute some through the map. Optionally place some close to the human player.

The human won't have the fudging 'in his face', because the location will have been fudged early... and a lot of territory growth/change will take place in the meantime. Its just more likely that the AI's will be in places where the Oil is. He, is, afterall, in a minority of 1.

[/EDIT]

An optional thought; you could have non-renewable resources simulated by including a second map, with quantities of that resource, and reduce that each turn its extracted.


This *should* or *may* set up intreguing diplomatic situations; if you don't have Oil, you can't just conquer- with Tanks/Planes/Ships... you have to be diplomatic and trade... or maybe you have Oil... but not a lot... and are hence are on a timer to invade a nearby Oil producing state. Maybe don't have/can't get oil, and hence are limited to human-based armies, and steam ships... till you can change it. A lot of play testing and balancing will be necessary to find a good balance in terms of this area.

MrBaggins

[Ekmek]

Has anyone been working on these good possibilities?