Unit Graphics 2

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by Richard Bruns
I am trying to standardize things so that players know exactly what a unit is when they see it on the map. IMO a picture should always be associated with a single set of stats unless the scenario explicitly states otherwise.

I agree, I was just suggesting that to not slow down your design and playtesting. We wouldn't release with it like that!

Perhaps you should just look through the civ2 mods section for some unit art, and then ask the authors if we can use it. I expect at least 50% would say yes. Then you or someone else with the right knowledge could change them over to Clash size.

[xxjiggawhoxx]

Yeah, most people will say its fine if theyre in the credits.

[Richard Bruns]

Changing the size of bitmaps that small always looks horrible. We can simply put the smaller civ units over the larger Clash terrain. Since the game engine puts multiple units in a single tile anyway, the units need to be little smaller.

I´ll hunt around for new graphics after releasing my first batch of changes, since it doesn´t really need new art yet.

[targon]

Hun horse archer, something near the end.

Here is the sample rendering:

[targon]

The above unit downsampled

Doesn't worth such a long work, er?

[targon]

Sources

Here are files used to produce the above mess, so you can count the mistakes I've made (it'll be a long list, BTW). It's Lightwave .lwo and .lws files. Note that you'll probably need Lightwave of at least version 7.0 in order to produce hair and fur...
Now about some sad facts. Quoting Rasbelin's post on our new www.stellapolaris.info

I've even catched a few in the Clash of Civilizations forum, where they certainly don't belong.

so things looks like the boss goes a bit angry . How interesting for the opensource project ...

[Richard Bruns]

The game will soon have a horse archer unit with your picture. Nice work.

[Richard Bruns]

I have gotten permission to use the unit images of the following artists:

The ANZAC
techumseh
Prometeus
fairline
Stefan Härtel
Hobbes

A nice collection of units can be found in a thread in the Civ2 scenarios forum called Pre-Steam Graphics Showcase.

Other units can be found by searching Apolyton's database for scenarios and modpacks by these authors.

Of course, we should be sure to mention anyone in the credits if we use their stuff.

Attached is a collection of units that fits our current scenarios well:

[xxjiggawhoxx]

Targon stirrups weren't invented until after the fall of Rome, and I think it was by the Mongolians, so you should remove the stirrups from the image with the Hungarian if you want to be historically correct. Oh and I have a book about the Roman empire with several pictures of barbarians and Roman Legion fighting, along with pictures of the carvings on some of the buildings that remain, so if you need any advice on the Roman equiptment post it and I can look it up. The other day I built a trebuchet for my physics class and I launched a golf ball about a quarter mile using 150 lb garage door springs and the sling I made. It was about nine feet tall, so if you need someone to design that unit I could do it easily since I've seen so many pictures and diagrams of them. Still your images are extreemely good so keep it up!

-Tyler-

[yellowdaddy]

i'm going to attempt a new set of uniform-style units.
48 x 48
with a little flag overlay.
small pallette (i like cartoon style = quick and easy, while still looking good).
I'll start with boats as Gary wants an ancient transport.

I'll be doing something along the lines of the following:
[paddle]
Dugout (where it all began)
Raft (for those caveman with lots of string)
Coracle (stoneage bearskin boat)
Kayak (more sophisticated version of coracle)
Reedboat (from the Nileto lake Titicaca)
Catamaran (for those ancient Indo-Pacific types)
fishingboat/rowing boat (?!)
Sail (for the Ancient Mediterranian types)
Galley (Gary's ancient transport?)
Bireme (is it a galley?)
Trireme (very ethnocentric - what about the others?!)

[age of sail and rudders!]
Longship (bit of an era straddler)
Junk (the first rudder was chinese)
Dhow (for Arabs)
Caravel (next step up from Galley in transport)
Brigantine (Caravel with castles, bit bigger call it T3)
Sloop (for Pirates)
Merchantman (a la Colonization?)
Galleon (for crossing the atlantic)
Sail Frigate (for protecting Galleons)
Man-o-war (napoleonic)
Clipper (big fast super sails)

[post-sail]
Steamer (for Mark Twain wannabees)
Ironclad (for scaring the flat-earthers)
U-boat (for scaring the ironclads)
Liner (for hitting icebergs with)
Patrol boat (you see them on films...)
Freighter (an upgrade in transport from the Clipper?)
Battleship (more 20 century warships data needed)
Submarine (generic wolfpack thing)
Frigate (small 20C warship)
Destroyer (big 20C warship)
Minesweeper (not AEGIS exactly)
Tanker (oil)
Research ship (for finding that oil)
Superfreighter (MT6 - Maritime Transport level 6?)
Carrier (for epic pacific conflicts)
Nuclear Sub (red october)
Hovercraft (why not!)
Ekranoplan (ground effect monster)
Hydrofoil (Dover to Oostend in 30 minutes)
Trimaran (next generation?)
futuristic undersea and amphibious vehicles (more later)

(I know there's gaps, crossover and overlap, i'm a work now, so i'll edit it later)

I think it might be worth having different sizes of some or all vessels: big galley, little galley... but I don't know what the limits are for numbers of types of units, so I'll just start from the most ancient and work forwards in time.

online sources:

http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/grkship.html

http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/grkships.html

http://www.probertencyclopaedia.com/ships.htm

[Gary Thomas]

This is the area in which graphics can make an immediate impact.

Two points are relevant:

1. We are concentrating on the anciant era until Version 1.0 comes out. Any graphics for other eras will not be used in the immediate future.

2. There has been a standard of having units all facing south-east. This has been modified by the introduction of graphics from other sources, with a serious randomizing result.

My preference would be for unit graphics to have eight orientations. If such graphics were available I would be prepared to do the coding to implement unit orientation.

My much longed for transport is not a galley. A galley is a fighting ship with oars. A transport is a round, sail-powered ship for carrying stuff like grain or people. So the "Sail" is the one I want.

Most of the other earlier types are not units: Dugout, Raft, Coracle, Kayak, Reedboat, Catamaran, though they could be used for movement. None have a military component. Since all would be used only to transport people, the transport that I want will replace all of them.

Cheers

[yellowdaddy]

aye, I know what your saying, but I like them (the range of canoes! the Polynesians used catamarans for transports though didn't they?)
I'll do them, and they can go into a folder called "flourishes and frills" (where most of my ideas are destined to go!)

so are we only going upto Viking longships for now or what?

--------------------

as for you transport
hows about calling it "large sail", so that there could be a "small sail" as well (we can find nicer names i'm sure)
what do you think?

there are some good links earlier on in this thread - some are familiar.

---------------------

For the moment I'd planned to do all the units side-on
the reason being, I want to get a nice set of units finished quickly.
if you want another 7 angles, that can come later, but at least the next demo would have a set of the new, though static, units to play with.

my main questions are:
a. how many colours can I use?
b. what precise angle do we want them viewed from?
I think most games seem to go for a 60 degree view from below...
It would help immensely if i had a small portion of "Gary Map" (a bit of coast showing a range of terrain both land and sea)
c. how many units can we have? do you have a list (i do!)

----------------

btw... Whatever happened to Targon? and why haven't you used his ship?
I think his ship was great, but the horse and man didn't do it for me.
I also can't see the point in doing 3d graphics and reducing them down, unless you're going to animate them, which is memory hungry isn't it? I mean they look nice, but how long do they take!
That's why I'd rather go for a cartoonist approach... you can churn out a lot of "oldskool" gfx which will be tidy enough... i think a full set of simpler cartoony units is better than one or two glory gfx like Targon did... i think you need to feel you're getting somewhere.

[targon]

Originally posted by yellowdaddy

btw... Whatever happened to Targon? and why haven't you used his ship?
I think his ship was great, but the horse and man didn't do it for me.
I also can't see the point in doing 3d graphics and reducing them down, unless you're going to animate them, which is memory hungry isn't it? I mean they look nice, but how long do they take!
That's why I'd rather go for a cartoonist approach... you can churn out a lot of "oldskool" gfx which will be tidy enough... i think a full set of simpler cartoony units is better than one or two glory gfx like Targon did... i think you need to feel you're getting somewhere.

Bah, Targon is out there (thx to the Apolyton topic reply notification) but he's pretty disappointed with his experiences with opensource projects in general As I've already mentioned I'm with some 3D slant so 2D tile graphics is probably the wrong thing to do for me. And you see, I've left Clash anyway, especialy then Rasbelin (admin of the Stella Polaris, now it's dead project) became angry
BTW, isn't the Clash dead?

[yellowdaddy]

kak delya Targon,

Clash seems to keep hanging on. I think people who visit these projects forget that long boring periods of coding have to take place, and are done by people who often by the very nature of their skills are in demand at work as well.. meantime, for those of us who can join in the occasionally monotonous side of graphics there's still plenty to that can be done.

--------------------

i'm just adding that I'm up for doing city overlays as well, as I have an interest in creating a range of different urban overlay types, shapes and sizes...

now i shall sneak away for a while and get on with it...

[Gary Thomas]

I think I was wrong in dismissing the rafts and coracles. They too are transports, but with more limited capabilities. So their presence would much enrich the game. As long as I get my roundship...

Personally I would like to go as far as the invention of cannon. So an Arab dhow or xebec, a junk, a proa, even a polynesian canoe would be great. We could even have a waaka as a warcraft (hey! I live in New Zealand).

moment I'd planned to do all the units side-on
the reason being, I want to get a nice set of units finished quickly.

Side-on is better than non-existent, but facing south-east would be better.

my main questions are:
a. how many colours can I use?

As many as you like. If stored as a gif (which it will be) they will be paletted to 255 plus one transparency colour. If you need more information let me know.

b. what precise angle do we want them viewed from?
I think most games seem to go for a 60 degree view from below...

I don't get the "from below" bit - ours are looked down on at around a 45 degree angle.

It would help immensely if i had a small portion of "Gary Map" (a bit of coast showing a range of terrain both land and sea)

For these purposes a Gary map will not differ from the map as viewed in the demo. Do you have that running?

c. how many units can we have? do you have a list (i do!)

Mark and I have discussed this - if we go past 10,000 I start to get uneasy...

Cheers

Gary