Terrain

[alms66]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
The color is just an argument to the constructor, so it's quite easy to change. Blue to red can be done, the opnly problem for me was I equate red with bad (so riots = red).

Then you just need to equate it with high instead!
Seriously, you can make any color high and any color low, while some mixture of those colors would be middle ground. Green seems like a good 'high' color. Just leave Red of RGB at '0' and mix Green & Blue.

[yellowdaddy]

It's too busy.

I thought you were just going to have a solid colour overlay? (with the units and that made invisible). Surely that'd be tidier?

[LDiCesare]

I don't want the units hidden when I change the terrain by an overlay.
I also don't understand what you mean by "it's too busy". Do you care to elaborate? I think my grasp of English is not good enough to understand this simple sentence.

[yellowdaddy]

"too busy" means there's too much stuff going on - (usually used in terms of colour and/or design).

specifically, there's too much: in terms of graphics, happening at the same time: the backgrounds, the fixed units; and overlays like fire etc; the movable units: and their indicators of unit strength; and then you want to put a coloured overlay for economic data on top?! It's just going to confuse rather than inform.

When I look at that screenshot, my first thoughts are - what's the point in all the detail on those units? it doesn't inform me about what they are or what they do, aside from the fact that they're not in any uniform style.

You got a man with a spear standing in a square of blue swamp surrounded by a blue ring and a brown fence with a yellow star in the right - it's a mess. And then what's that funny jacket on the left? is it a unit?

I genuinely believe that simplicity is the way to go with units, overlays, and indicators.

You say you don't want the units (and I imagine terrain too?) hidden when you click on an overlay... Why do you need to know both things at the same time? This is not a realtime game, and in a gamemap that's not that huge, you're fairly likely to be aware of the value of squares without having to see it displayed all the time.

It's common in strategy games over the last 20 years to have a separate map screen with overlays displaying data that is useful to know, but that you don't need displayed at all times - the various Sim games (City, Earth, etc...) to site but a few as well as teh first version of Civilisation.
It's a good short cut to simply do away with the separate map and put the overlay straight on the game map, though it'd be nice too to zoom out to larger scale maps too.

Simple graphics - four (or eight) colour units are all you need, and will improve the whole look of the game, as well as saving memory. The game after all is supposed to be an engine upon which scenarios can be overlayed.
Simpler graphics would also make the screen look tidier, if you insist on the pointless displaying of units at the same time as these map overlays.

[LDiCesare]

Displaying units at the same time as, for instance economics information, is useful to make sure your units protect the most economically valuable tiles for instance. So it is not pointless.
I also don't want an overlay to lose the terrain information because I want to always remember which tile among those 20 plains is the isolated mountain.
I don't want the econ value to be displayed all the time, it's just one overlay among others available.
I want to see all the information at a single glance if I choose to. You don't have to activate any overlay at any time. I think the power circle could also be switched on/off based on a setting if you want to, but I'm unsure why one would want not to see the power circle.
Most games I am aware of show at least as much info on the map at any time. Civ showed terrain, specials, units, city or fortifications, roads, mines, railroads at the same time. CTP2 could even add stuff like trade routes.

[yellowdaddy]

I think there are tidier ways of displaying the info.

the power circle is not the best way. a simple vertical or horizontal line would be clearer and take up less room.

Most games I am aware of show at least as much info on the map at any time. Civ showed terrain, specials, units, city or fortifications, roads, mines, railroads at the same time. CTP2 could even add stuff like trade routes.

You're overlaying a colour (for economic info) on top of the terrain as well... i think it's too much - of course it depends on how many kinds of terrain you've got, and what they look like with the overlay.

Displaying units at the same time as, for instance economics information, is useful to make sure your units protect the most economically valuable tiles for instance.

I don't think I said displaying them all was pointless; displaying them all at the same time is unnecessary.

and why do you need to see icons of commodities all the time?
surely they should come with the economic overlay

How about a small generic "commodity" icon (like a shield) to show that there's something there, and then when you switch on the economic overlay you get the details?

Mind you, I think that even the humanoid units should just be silhouetted matchstick men...

[alms66]

Originally posted by yellowdaddy
I don't think I said displaying them all was pointless; displaying them all at the same time is unnecessary.

and why do you need to see icons of commodities all the time?
surely they should come with the economic overlay

I agree with yellowdaddy completely here. But, if my idea about 'view filters' and 'map filters' is implemented, the problem is solved. (Map filters are already being implemented, but no view filters have been, as of this writing).

Originally posted by yellowdaddy
How about a small generic "commodity" icon (like a shield) to show that there's something there, and then when you switch on the economic overlay you get the details?

That's not a bad idea, though I'd prefer a system which didn't need this extra icon by having resources (or specials) on every tile.

Originally posted by yellowdaddy
Mind you, I think that even the humanoid units should just be silhouetted matchstick men...

I'm fairly sure you'll be alone in that one...

[Lord God Jinnai]

I want to see all the information at a single glance if I choose to. You don't have to activate any overlay at any time.

Complex games like this are impossible to display all information at a glance, even without making it too busy. Rhis game after all is eventually suppose to be more complex than civ2 or ctp2.

That's not a bad idea, though I'd prefer a system which didn't need this extra icon by having resources (or specials) on every tile.

That imo is better, but would require a seperate screen.

The fact is its too hard to display things all at the same time because at times it becomes important when you want to see what areas have, not what indivisual tiles have. What area has coal and what area has uranium and color-coded map is far better for something like this which you can see very easily at a glance, not hunt down little icons.

[yellowdaddy]

aye, basically the less graphics the better, more is less etc...
it's certainly logical that every polygon should have some kind of resource(s) in some proportions, however, you'd expect to find some areas which were particlarly abundant.
This is economic data, and would aid game speed if this kind of data was restricted to a selectable economic/resource overlay; the player being able to set their own default overlay to suit their preference perhaps.

How many overlays are we talking? 4 or 5?

1. the Bare physical map, then:

Active:
2. "Econo-Resource" (traderoutes, resources, land use),
3. "Politico-Military" (Units and borders);

Passive:
4. Ethnolinguistic (dynastic info; race, language (writing system) dispersal/similarity - "immutable definers"),
5. "Religio-cultural" (religions and ideologies - "mutable definers")

They all overlap to a degree, but provide useful data for decisionmaking: explaning the (likely) behaviour of other "actors" in the game.