FOR AN OVERVIEW OF THE CLASH PROJECT - READ THIS

[yellowdaddy]

what is a bump? and what does YMMV mean? (baffled of Dorset)

[Mark_Everson]

Hi All:

This thread could use a bump anyway so. . .

I'm going to be at a conference until Thursday. So if you email me with game stuff, don't be too surprised if it takes a while for me to get back to you.

-Mark

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Jack, welcome to the Clash forum

Originally posted by yellowdaddy
the question is, is my game or ideas compatible with this game, i'm not sure.... some of them seem to be, but some maybe not... we'll have to see.

Even if there are serious incompatabilities between your concept and Clash that doesn't mean there is no point to your potentially joining the team. You need to evaluate what positive aspects you would see with Clash from your perspective vs the liklihood of your dream game ever coming into existance through tremendous amounts of volunteer hard work. . .

the proof is in the pudding, so i will try an persuade with hard graphics and not just hot air.

yes indeed

i'm a bit bemused by this Java programming - what restrictions does this place on the game? as opposed to a C++ game? is this the kind of game you can play on your own as you would with Civ3 or something without the internet on, or ..?!

Relatively few restrictions. Just play the demo as discussed below and you'll see.

finally, i wonder what stage the game is at? i've downloaded something, but i don't know what to do with it!

Um, uh the most recent demo d/l is in the Demo 7 thread up top. There are links to directions for what to do to run it in that thread. If you follow the directions and get hung up, say in the D7 thread what you did and where you're stuck and we'll figure it out.

have i posted this message in the right thread?!

This thread is as good as any for your broad points. The graphics stuff would be better in the terrain or units graphics threads. For the best way to make suggestions or post comments read the "Suggestions" page off the main Clash web page.

i have to sign off now... back to my booze.

Hope you and the booze had a good time!

-Mark

[yellowdaddy]

my first post. I'm scottish, can speak a few languages, and am quite keen on realising a strong and DIFFERENT alternative to Sid Meier-type games.

i've already e-mailed Mark a bit, describing where i'm coming from... i'll elaborate further over time.

i have qualifications and experience in graphics and music. more to the point i designed a game a not unlike civ in theme, but quite different in style and structure about year before Civ 1 appeared. I have kept the idea shelved ever since, but i have some data, graphics and deep research.

the question is, is my game or ideas compatible with this game, i'm not sure.... some of them seem to be, but some maybe not... we'll have to see.

for a start, my map is quite different from any of the civ2 clones floating around, as are many other aspects. i don't like 3d isometric - i've read your earlier debate on this, i'm disappointed that so far your screenshots are of an isometric type - i will be putting a website together with a clearer presentation of my ideas, and some screenshots, which will be of a professional quality (without wishing too sound too arrogant!?!), but they will be overhead view, not 3d isometric. fortunatley in a way, most of the ideas i have that are radically different from things proposed have graphics to back them up.

the proof is in the pudding, so i will try an persuade with hard graphics and not just hot air.

i'm a bit bemused by this Java programming - what restrictions does this place on the game? as opposed to a C++ game? is this the kind of game you can play on your own as you would with Civ3 or something without the internet on, or ..?!

finally, i wonder what stage the game is at? i've downloaded something, but i don't know what to do with it!

have i posted this message in the right thread?!

i have to sign off now... back to my booze.


Jack McNeill

UK

[vovan]

Looks good to me, Mark. Although I was thinking maybe you should consider revising the main page a little bit. On the right-hand column, where it says Key Milestones, maybe you should replace that with just news? After all, if somebody comes to the main page the way it is, they will see that the last 'signinficant' activity was in the middle of last summer, and they might not notice the link to the news section, which has been updated a little over a week ago. I mean if you want the users to see project activity right away, it might be a good idea to do that.

[Mark_Everson]

Project Status Page Updated

Che and I have conspired to update the Project Status page on the web page. Its only been ignored for a year or so :0 ! As usual if I've screwed up in matching people to tasks in any important way, let me know and we'll get it fixed up.

I've now put a reminder on my calendar to update it every three months so potential recruits don't get the idea that we're not making progress.

[LDiCesare]

Straybow, could you cross-post that into the current Military Model thread (VI)? It has better chances to be found when we implement naval combat rules, which should (hopeiully, if everything goes well, and lots of additional conditionals) not be that far (I am being precise here) in time.

[Straybow]

Blockades require separate combat rules, given limited room to maneuver and other factors. If the force holding a straight has some threshold level of strength it becomes very expensive to break through because the attacker can't bring his full strength to bear. The English Channel was too narrow for Spain's large fleet of slow deep hull ships (another factor most strategic games ignore) to fight effectively.

[LDiCesare]

I think Straybow says Spain held Gibraltar thus they could have forbidden Venice from crossing the straits. A naval picket (I guess they had both fleet and artillery on land) locked Venice inside the Mediterranean. A blockade system would be needed to represent that. I think that putting lots of ships in the straits would do the job, though we are far from implementing naval fights (particularly supported from shore) now. We don't even have a model for this.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Straybow:

I gotta admit its unbalancing, but it seems somewhat realistic to me. What is is about it that you consider it bad historically?

[Straybow]

A note regarding EU2 and how to avoid some of its failings. I've fiddled with it some and noticed something really irritating. One reason why Portugal and Spain became such powers in the 16th c. is because they bottled up the Mediterranean maritime powers at Gibraltar.

Genoa or Venice could have fought them, but having to fight through the straights every time they wished to pass was impossible. Too expensive in manpower and equipment. In one game Venice and Savoy (at war with Austria) sent a joint expedition around Iberia up to attack the Low Countries (makes sense), and Scotland (of all places).

Having an effective naval picket model is important.

[axi]

I have EU1. Very nice game, but it gets boring once you get too big, with the continuous uprisings and the wars that occur every 5 years. The worst stuff one ha sto micromanage because the game makes him or the AI is inadequate are the merchants and attrition. Random events makes you want to reload all the time. Plus the AI is really stupid (although powerful). And of course the game HAS TO cheat to keep up with you.

[colorrr]

Thanks Mark.

I think I'll just play Clash instead. :-)

[Mark_Everson]

Hi colorrr:

EU2 might be good if you have a high tolerance for micromanagement (MM). But there is a Lot of MM and some other oddities that have put me off the game. I have a very low tolerance for MM since it seems more like work to me than a game. I couldn't stand the end period of civ2 for the same reason. Ten-minute turns are a Real turnoff unless you get more than 10min worth of fun out of them.

I had some fun moments with EU2, but don't think I've recovered in fun the cost of the game yet. And there was a very substantial learning curve that would be ok if I were going to play the game for months, but was a complete waste if I drop it here. Probably will never continue with it unless they have a patch that helps with the MM issues and some others. You can see more of my comments here .

[colorrr]

I did'nt play any of the Europea Universalis yet.
Was considering it though, do you think it is worth the effort?