Map Graphics Thread, Part II

[Simon Loverix]

There's no 'Swamp' terrain type in the ecology model. The five terrains are covered by vegetation (ranging from desert over farmland to forest).
Wetland is one of the water types. It won't be on the same square as a river (though it can be part of a river).

Since all farming sites are always used, the ratio farmed/normal patches can depend on the total yield: in ancient times you would see a few farms, in modern times almost the whole square covered. Or let it depend on K. or L. or farming tech.

Wetland: 50% of the normal vegetation patches can be replaced by 'pool' patches

[Gary Thomas]

Although my main focus lately has been on the map AI, it does have implcations for map graphics, so I have been thinking about that, too.

One of the things that has bothered me is the abrupt sea shores.

I would suggest that the way to get around that is to have an overlay terrain for land (it could equally well be for the sea, but having an overlay of a bit of sea is simpler than an overlay of a bit of land) with the appropriate beaches, or cliffs, shown.

This could be achieved, in the simplest case, with four overlays (one for each tile side). Alternatively, more complcated combinations (16 = 2⁴) for all the ways beach can impact.

You could also have a straight, where the water goes through the middle. Of course that would look a bit odd if a city were built in that square.

Cheers

[Gary Thomas]

Fiera, now that you are back...

There are a few things relating to tiles that need attention, if you don't mind!

• I did a pretty rough (a pun!) terrain tile for rough terrain. A nice one would be nice!
• We need a city (or town) tile that is an overlay, rather than a full tile, so it can go on top of hills or roads.
• Eight little road overlays (from the centre to each of the eight directions) is another fairly urgent need.
• A coastal water tile would be nice (lighter than ocean?).
• It would also be nice to have beach overlays for tile edges (see my previous post). These could also be used for tile edge rivers.

Anyway, glad you are back!

Cheers

[Fiera]

We need a city (or town) tile that is an overlay, rather than a full tile, so it can go on top of hills or roads.

I had thought of something like this, I guess they're small enough to fit on top of hills.

[Fiera]

Another style...

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Fiera:

Those look good to me. Although I'm a little worried about them being visible on all the tiles...

We also need to work out a spec for showing who controls land. I did that square colored medallion in D4, but that would Not fit with your city icons. Any ideas?

[Gary Thomas]

Those are great, Fiera. I will incorporate them when I get to my office (and send you some Roman pictures).

We also need to work out a spec for showing who controls land. I did that square colored medallion in D4, but that would Not fit with your city icons. Any ideas?

My idea is to outline the tiles with the civilization colour. Easy to implement. Also, I might leave out the outline if two adjacent squares belong to the same civilization. So, in effect, you get a border.

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by Gary Thomas
My idea is to outline the tiles with the civilization colour. Easy to implement. Also, I might leave out the outline if two adjacent squares belong to the same civilization. So, in effect, you get a border.

I think this could have a very congested look when control changes by square. Other than that It'd be ok by me. But it doesn't cover the issue of showing population or economic power in a way the player can understand easily. "Is that empty verdant land, or crammed to the gills with peasants?" We could use little houses/farms but I think it would be too cluttered.

Ideas?

[Gary Thomas]

Some time ago I reached the conclusion that with a game as complex as Clash it would be impossible to show all the information on a single map, though some things could be turned on or off (civ or province boundaries for example).

For demographic and economic information, I would suggest a switch which changes the overlays on the map from military units to, say population or production bars (that is, miniature vertical bar charts).

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

Gary, I'm with you that All relevant information can't be shown. But the economic power of a square is IMO Very important and deserves special treatment. This info would only be shown when there aren't military units in the square, so it wouldn't IMO clutter up things too much.

I agree that it isn't Imperitive and can be discarded if more people don't like it then do. Or put in as a simple switch that's shown or not at player preference.

I just had another idea... There will be all kinds of screens to show things by say color in terms of political control, or population, or economic power, etc. How about we allow the player to select One of these, and show a little square of the color that goes with that square on the main map. The little square would be maybe 10% of the size of a map square. I don't propose we do that now, but at some point we could give it a try. We could try it for D6 using econ strength If others like the idea, and see what players think of it. I admit it could be just plain ugly...

[Gary Thomas]

How does a small coloured square tell you the population of a map square?

Cheers

[Mark_Everson]

If we do mapping of characteristics by color then the color shows the population in terms of that color scale! Suppose we use colors ordered as the visible spectrum with red = highest and violet = lowest. The squares with highest population I know of would show in red, and the lowest in violet. So most desert and mountain squares would get a little purple square in say the center. Rome at its peak would show as red, but we probably wouldn't use a little square in that instance since it'd have a city icon whose size would indicate population.

Or if the color is too distracting, we could do it by size of a black square (harder for player to distinguish, but less jarring).

[Gary Thomas]

Really don't think that would work. I would imagine the play testers complaints would be considerable.

Cheers

[axi]

My humble opinion is:

Leave the main map with just city info (city icons) and province - civ borders and reserve the population and economic info for alternative maps. See how Europa Universalis is handling things.

Coloured squares in the middle of the tiles will be really ugly, as the demo 4 has shown us.

One idea is to make the details window display the selected tile in all map modes, in addition to any numbers and text it will provide.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Axi:

Ah, province borders, that's a good idea. Thinner than the civ borders, do you think?

Well, I guess I'm outvoted am not inclined to fight it . We'll see how it works without a population or econ strength indicator on the main map. You're both right that it will look better without. I'm just a recovering information junkie.