Map Graphics

[Chris Wilkinson]

I've been messing around with some map graphics and I was wondering what people think of http://clash.apolyton.net/chris/maptest1.jpg

I know it uses my hexagon (not octagon!) idea, but do you lot like the general 'feel' of the graphics?

[Mark_Everson]

Chris:

I find it very hard to make any judgement based on only 3 tile types. The grassland (?) and coastline look pretty good to me, and the water is I think too boring.

Others:

Samples of the other sorts of graphics we're considering are on page 1 of this thread under "posted September 16, 2000 09:19"

[This message has been edited by Mark_Everson (edited October 15, 2000).]

[Richard Bruns]

One of the nice things about hexagons is that you don't really have to draw coastlines. The map would look fine without them; we only need the land and water tiles.

I'd prefer regular hexagons.

I think F_Smith said that the map code will be able to handle any tiling option. I would like to see hexagons as an option.

[Chris Wilkinson]

I've been testing out regular hexagons as well, I'll post a copy of them tomorrow.

[alms66]

I downloaded the HiRes graphics for Civ II (you can view it here: http://apolyton.net/civ2/ NOTE:click database, Top Rated, HiRes), and this idea hit me:

Why not use these temporarily for Clash?

We would, of course, get the owner's permission, then resize them to whatever size we need. This would give us some graphics to work with until we have artists on board to do all the different graphics for the final game. In all I don't think it would be too much work to get the 2 different sizes for all tiles we need, since I don't think we'll need all those unit graphics. If you like the idea, I'll need a list of what units, terrain, and city icons we'll need (with different cultures, etc.).

What do you think of this idea?
[This message has been edited by Toubabo_Koomi (edited October 20, 2000).]

[Mark_Everson]

Great Idea! Can you check with the author and see if he's interested in principle before we get too far along in discussing this?

[alms66]

We've got the "go ahead", now we need to finalize the list of what units, terrain, cities, etc. we'll need. The first post by Paul Crocker in this thread had a good list and there was some discussion afterwards, but no conclusion. Any new thoughts on this?

Strange coincidence??? , the guy's name is Tim F. Smith.
[This message has been edited by Toubabo_Koomi (edited October 21, 2000).]

[Mark_Everson]

Here is a short update just to get this discussion rolling again! The alternate civ tiles that TK talked about turned out not to be is useful as we had hoped. They are great tiles, but unfortunately they don't match the resolutions we are shooting for of 120x60. At the resolutions we are dealing with images don't really scale gracefully... But we have some more artists potentially interested in the project since I have been annoying people posting in forums where more artists hang out .

The status for now is that we are still using GIF 89 a tiles. That will probably have to end at some point, since GIF licenses are being required for commercial projects, and they cost a non-trivial amount of money. But for the moment I think we can do a lot of good exploration using the GIF format, and hopefully move significantly forward and lock in specifications for the graphics.

Let's get the map graphics discussions going again!

[Richard Bruns]

Two points:

Why can't we change the tile size we are using? It would be trivial, and it would allow us to use any existing Civ2 graphic that the owner gives us permission to use. Personally, I like the civ2 tile size better than the larger ones we are currently using.

If we declared our project to be freeware and used the GPL, we wouldn't have that problem with the GIF graphics. We might also have an easier time getting permission to use existing graphics.

[Mark_Everson]

Hey Richard:

On changing the tile size... Well I think the bigger ones look better, simply because you get more pixels to improve the appearance. But you are right that changing our default tile size would allow for immediate use an awful lot of already-done civ 2 stuff providing we can get permission. Hopefully we can get some of the artists to weigh in on whether the graininess existing civ ones would be a problem from an aesthetic perspective...

The GIF licensing thing Does Not have an exception for open source use as far as I can tell from the information I have.

[Fiera]

Hello, there!

I'm currently trying to help Mark and the Clash team with the units graphics, and Mark told me to post a link here so everybody could see my Civ2 art for cities and buildings. I must say I have more experience with units than city icons, however I'd be very happy to be of any help to Clash.

Please, check this page.
www.geocities.com/fiera_com/civ2/varios.html

I'm particulary proud of the isometric ones, the others are maybe too Civ2-alike, but please tell me how you like them anyway.

Thanks.

[This message has been edited by Fiera (edited March 19, 2001).]

[Richard Bruns]

Very Nice!

But will they look right in the larger tile size?

[Fiera]

I'm not sure about that, I don't understand how the map system works, I haven't read it all...

However, I believe that will be not a big problem, as I may try newer city icons taht fit better to the larger tile size...

[Mark_Everson]

Thanks Fiera! I like the isometric ones too, although the others are attractive too.

BTW, what Is the default Civ tile size anyway? I'm still thinking about Richard's suggestion that we make the civ default a standard Clash tile size.

[Fiera]

The standard Civ2 tile is a 64x32 diamond. Objects like cities and units may however exceed the diamond's upper limits, as I believe you did with the Clah tile in Demo 4.

Maybe the tile you used there is too big. If you plan to depict Task Forces by just one unit, ther's no need for so much room in just a tile, so I don't see why you should not go for the standard civ tile...

Great you like my work, BTW.