Technology Test Scenario: Development & Discussion Thread

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by alms66
Mark, I've updated the activity file with all the tier 1 techs. Once you get them working, we can see about putting recipients down for them, because I didn't put any for now.

Adam:

I have made some crude hookups for the new activities. This should let you get going with the new broad "tier 1" activities. I don't like putting the new activities in the activities file, since they will screw up interfaces in the other scenarios to no good purpose. To that end, I've put them in the scenario file, which I have sent you.

For now each activity dumps all RPs straight into the tier 1 tech ("Communications, etc"). You can change them now to be whatever hookups you want. The code now dumps a number of RPs equivalent to 0.01% of gross civ production into the activity for free. Of course the player can add more using the Tech items in the econ menu. (you will have to hit the reorder button to see them all) This base amount may still be a bit too big as the civ grows, but that's part of what we're testing.

Let me know if there are any issues.

Cya,

Mark

[Mark_Everson]

We need to figure out real hookups for the new Activites at some point. I just looked over the list at Communications, Transportation, etc. and didn't see any obvious connections between the economic sectors and these activities. There may be some better connections further down the tech tiers like farming sector to farming (agricultural) techs. Any suggestions are welcome. Right now the only limitation is that an economic sector can only feed RPs into a single activity. Perhaps we should change that.

BTW Alms. To get activites to show up in the interface etc. you don't need me to do anything at all. They will automatically appear in the econ interface once defined in the scenario file. In addition, if you put in orders for that activity in the xml then it will automatically be fed some RPs. I think you can get very far in testing your tech setup while using this approach without needing to wait on Laurent or me for hookups.

I'm looking forward to the next steps on this! My next job is to try and get specials to appear when the correct tech levels are reached.

[alms66]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I just committed a scrollbar for the tech panel. It's still far from a cool interface, though.

It's better than nothing.

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
I have made some crude hookups for the new activities. This should let you get going with the new broad "tier 1" activities. I don't like putting the new activities in the activities file, since they will screw up interfaces in the other scenarios to no good purpose. To that end, I've put them in the scenario file, which I have sent you.

I didn't like the idea either, but I thought it was what you asked me to do?

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
My next job is to try and get specials to appear when the correct tech levels are reached.

I made a suggestion (#8 in the d8 comment thread) about getting the economics.xml divorced from the scenario file. If you think it's a good idea, perhaps that could be your next job.

At this point economics is the only thing required for this scenario to run and it just seems wrong to have any external links, when you can just as easily import them, or better yet, make a scenario template that has already done the importing for you, so all you have to do is fill out the new information.

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by alms66
I didn't like the idea either, but I thought it was what you asked me to do?

No idea, anyway, it's done the right way now.

I made a suggestion (#8 in the d8 comment thread) about getting the economics.xml divorced from the scenario file. If you think it's a good idea, perhaps that could be your next job.

I just looked into this. I believe that the ‘economics.xml’ file can be integrated with the scenario file now. At least it looks, on cursory inspection, like the code is already there for econ to be in the scenario file. I think that I fixed it when you last asked, and then forgot to tell you. Have you tried it?

[Mark_Everson]

It looks like militaryattitude should also work in a scenario file. I looked at tiles, and it has some peculiarities that I'm not sure how to address now. In principle you now have most of what you asked for.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
I just looked into this. I believe that the �economics.xml� file can be integrated with the scenario file now. At least it looks, on cursory inspection, like the code is already there for econ to be in the scenario file. I think that I fixed it when you last asked, and then forgot to tell you. Have you tried it?

You told me that specials could go in the scenario file, but I didn't realize the whole file could. I'll give it a try.

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
It looks like militaryattitude should also work in a scenario file. I looked at tiles, and it has some peculiarities that I'm not sure how to address now. In principle you now have most of what you asked for.

I'll try militaryattitude also.
By tiles, you mean terrain.xml, I assume. Leaving this one out for now is fine. In the long run, however, I suspect having an intergrated scenario file, independent of outside files (except for the graphic tiles themselves) will be the way to go. If a scenario designer wants the tech tree from a certain scenario, then all he has to do is import it from that scenario and it's done.
It would be nice to bypass the middle-man "images.xml" for graphics, but it appears that this is loaded on program startup rather than scenario startup, so doing it could pose a problem.

I should probably cross-post that somewhere, but I don't know what the current scenario file discussion thread is. Is it still 'On the subject of Scenarios'?

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by alms66
I should probably cross-post that somewhere, but I don't know what the current scenario file discussion thread is. Is it still 'On the subject of Scenarios'?

Sounds like it's the right one. If not, I'm sure someone will point it out. But the request is already in the features list, so you could probably skip it.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
Sounds like it's the right one. If not, I'm sure someone will point it out. But the request is already in the features list, so you could probably skip it.

Ok then.

BTW, I've integrated the scenario file so it has no external dependencies, other than those that all scenarios must have. I've also added the Tier 1 activities. It runs just fine, now I'm off to get that tech tree ready for a preview...

[alms66]

I've noticed that there is no way to preset the "tech" categories in the econ interface (or am I missing something?). I don't intend on using it in this particular test scenario, but it will be needed in the future to set the AI so it can research new techs.

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by alms66
I've noticed that there is no way to preset the "tech" categories in the econ interface (or am I missing something?). I don't intend on using it in this particular test scenario, but it will be needed in the future to set the AI so it can research new techs.

You mean set tech order values, or what? If that is the problem, try moving those orders way down in the scenario file, and see if that helps.


I've finished the pass at Requirements for Special Commodities. The specials and sites only appear on the map when the reqirement is fulfilled. So far there is a bug that workers are assigned to the sector at init, but it gives no production. I don't know when I'll have time to fix that bug, and seeing as what I have is ok for playtesting I will commit it. Look for an email with more info.

[alms66]

Originally posted by Mark_Everson
You mean set tech order values, or what? If that is the problem, try moving those orders way down in the scenario file, and see if that helps.

If tech order values means setting the % spent on tech research in the econ interface, then yes. In the scenario, currently, I have several fields preset to 5 (or 8 maybe). I want to do this for the tech fields (Military Tech, Food Tech, etc.) I thought those production order tags could only go in the civilization tags (i.e. were a subtag of civilization)?

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by alms66
If tech order values means setting the % spent on tech research in the econ interface, then yes. In the scenario, currently, I have several fields preset to 5 (or 8 maybe). I want to do this for the tech fields (Military Tech, Food Tech, etc.) I thought those production order tags could only go in the civilization tags (i.e. were a subtag of civilization)?

Yeah, you're right, I wasn't thinking on that.

I'll try to see what's going on later. There are some bugs with orders upon startup. As a workaround, you can also set orders as an event. See the bottom of Delenda, just above the merchants block, for an example. Try your orders as Turn 1 events. If that doesn't work then use Turn 2, that should work. (Turn 1 may or may not work depending on exactly when those happen upon initialization.)

[alms66]

I'll give the events a try.

Terrain Activities
These are a bit weird to call activities, but…
We’d need one for each terrain type, so that we have a Plains Activity, Mountain Activity, Forest Activity, etc. I’m not sure how the number of RPs are calculated for the other activities, but for these, it would have to be based on the number of tiles of that terrain type that you own. There could also be a Coastal Activity, which counts the number of coastal tiles that are adjacent to owned tiles, since you can’t own coast.

What’s it used for? Well, Forest Activity would grant RPs to energy related techs, shipbuilding, etc., while Mountain Activity would grant RPs to Mining and Metallurgy (possibly), and the Coastal Activity would grant RPs to Water Transportation, Shipbuilding, etc.

Negative Activities
I think we should also allow negative RP generation. For example, the Coastal Activity would grant RPs to Shipbuilding, but if you’re in the frozen northern reaches of Siberia you shouldn’t get Shipbuilding from it, so the Tundra Activity generates negative RPs towards Shipbuilding, effectively canceling out the Coastal Activity. Whether or not negative activities can force a Civ into a hole (i.e. have a negative RP total, not just per turn), or merely hits bottom at 0, is a matter of discussion.

[LDiCesare]

I'd say population on a given terrain can yield some activities. It would have to depend on population in order to avoid settling lots of squares with 10 people to get some RPs.
About negative, I'd rather have conditional (forest + coast = increased shipbuilding) but that looks feasible. I'd rather use it ony to cancel some RPs generated by the same square.

[Mark_Everson]

That's a good idea Alms. It could possibly be refined to people pursuing X actions in Y terrain give RPs in Z activity. The actions would be like building particular infrastructure, or working in particular sectors of the economy. We wouldn't have to do the specific parts immediately, but could work up to it. I agree with Laurent's suggested modifications of the base idea also.