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  • On the subject of scenarios

    Much of my recent posting, scattered around a number of threads, actually relates to Scenarios, their perceived deficiencies, and their relationship to the Clash game.

    The first point I would like to make is that Clash has scenarios and nothing else. It differs from other similar games, and in particular Civilization, in that there is no underlying game, there are only scenarios. Of course it is certainly our intention to eventually have the kind of games available in Civilization as scenarios.

    Thus the whole world, whole of history game will be presented as a scenario. Because the Clash game is in a relatively early stage of development, this particular scenario has not been written.

    In passing, I wrote the basic data for the Dawn, Jericho, Delenda and Atilla scenarios, to give some variety.

    The original Dawn scenario did not allow the messages that it now has. When adding the message system, I had to write an events handler. Not a hugely sophisticated one, but it does allow quite a bit of variety in the way in which a scenario develops.

    In order that Mark and Laurent could modify the Dawn scenario (and the others), I wrote a sort of reference manual on how to write scenarios. I think that that manual is still around somewhere. Perhaps it could be made available to everyone. This would allow people with their own idea of how a scenario should work to write their own scenario. After all, a scenario is just a couple of text files (map, and scenario).

    That way, people who insist on having the Indus Valley, or China adjacent to the Dead sea could do so.

    Cheers

  • #2
    That way, people who insist on having the Indus Valley, or China adjacent to the Dead sea could do so.


    Perhaps it could be made available to everyone. This would allow people with their own idea of how a scenario should work to write their own scenario. After all, a scenario is just a couple of text files (map, and scenario).
    yes, that'd be great

    I just want a map of the world to play on - how big can it be?
    click below for work in progress Clash graphics...
    clicaibh sios airson tairgnain neo-chriochnaichte dhe Clash...
    http://jackmcneill.tripod.com/

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    • #3
      I hope for a "manual of the creator of scenarios", too. For the moment, it's very difficult too understand the game mechanic, for me.

      Comment


      • #4
        Vampiloup = ex-Evolution project team ?

        I was the High Priest of Civ 2

        Edit : oh yes ! a world wide scn should be cool
        Last edited by Abdul Alhazred; March 23, 2004, 14:40.
        L'Arabe Dément
        l'Arabe Fou

        H.P. LOVECRAFT

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        • #5
          Garry, is the document you are refering to the dataformat.html, included in the testbed. It does have some description on the variouse tags used in the scenarioes.
          Visit my CTP-page and get TileEdit and a few other CTP related programs.
          Download and test SpriteEdit development build.

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          • #6
            Garry, is the document you are refering to the dataformat.html, included in the testbed. It does have some description on the variouse tags used in the scenarioes.
            Yes, that sounds like it. Bear in mind that I haven't seen it for over two years.

            Cheers

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            • #7
              Abdul : No no. I, i "work" in the "Syzygie" project. But it's a "in hiatus" project for the moment (i have a lot of work, sorry).

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              • #8
                Yes, that sounds like it. Bear in mind that I haven't seen it for over two years.
                That's it. I updated it as faithfully as I could. This probably means I scr***d it a bit, but I think it's at least up to date with the version of code that comes with it.
                Come to think of it, I think I should have added a version/history thing somewhere so that when you've got a scenario and it suddenly no longer works because of new mandatory tags you understand why.
                Clash of Civilization team member
                (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                • #9
                  Quoted from another thread:
                  Or you could use random (or not quite random) groups of syllables. This gets interesting, because you could possibly program in a certain style for each language. For example the XacTec culture might name it's cities similarly (DacPak, LacPak, MoomPak, etc.), it's provinces another way (XacLos, XacMoom, XaxDac, etc.), and it's characters in another manner (Blort dos MoomPak, Port dos LacPak, etc.). This could get quite complicated- both a plus for immersion (in some ways) and a difficulty for coding...
                  Names are another form of eye- candy, but I like them. I already have code that generates names which have the flavour of various existing languages. You do, however, run the risk of offending people who are native speakers of the language by producing names that, to a non-speaker seem reasonable, but to a native-speaker are nonsensical or offensive.

                  A better approach is to completely make up the language flavour. I have had some fun with this in the past.

                  Cheers

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                  • #10
                    maybe you were expecting this but, a quote from you from another thread:

                    I cannot see any place at all for language in the game. Nor can I see any possibility of any coder wasting their (precious) time on it.


                    I think it might be worth trying it with real languages from different families to help come up with the various language flavours - and with well over 6,000 on the ethnologue.org site there's plenty to choose from!

                    there are lists of vocabs online in Thracian and Hittite and Sumerian things like that... (sumerian.org)

                    as for offensiveness, do you really think that's likely?! you could always add a textfile disclaimer?!
                    click below for work in progress Clash graphics...
                    clicaibh sios airson tairgnain neo-chriochnaichte dhe Clash...
                    http://jackmcneill.tripod.com/

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gary Thomas

                      Names are another form of eye- candy, but I like them. I already have code that generates names which have the flavour of various existing languages. You do, however, run the risk of offending people who are native speakers of the language by producing names that, to a non-speaker seem reasonable, but to a native-speaker are nonsensical or offensive.

                      A better approach is to completely make up the language flavour. I have had some fun with this in the past.

                      Cheers
                      Well, My Idea was in fact to have random cultures; no actual "french" or "russian" cultures. For real languages one could just use the set of actual city names (Moskva, Sankt Peterburg, Tver', Kiev, etc.).

                      As a side note, in Freeciv they appear to have made code that makes the RL city names appear in semi-appropriate terrain.
                      --
                      "Christ told us to love each another, and for the last 2000 years we've been killing each other over how he said it. When you become obsessed with the enemy, you become the enemy" --Max Eilerson, Starship Excalibur "Crusades" 2267

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                      • #12
                        Can we please try to keep the threads on-topic? This one's about scenarios, I miss the relation of the last posts with the subject.
                        Clash of Civilization team member
                        (a civ-like game whose goal is low micromanagement and good AI)
                        web site http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml and forum here on apolyton)

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                        • #13
                          Laurent is right, this thread has drifted. See my comment in the language thread.

                          Cheers

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                          • #14
                            The scenario editor progresses apace. There is a very good chance that it will be finished by the end of this decade...

                            In writing the code, I realized that I will have to produce an editable panel for virtually every aspect of the various XML files. It occurs to me that if this is done properly, those panels can also be used to to provide the player in the game with a wide variety of data that is not currently available. This does seem a worthwhile thing to do.

                            Cheers

                            Gary

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                            • #15
                              The bit about the new informational panels sounds great Gary! I expect info junkies like me will love them.
                              Project Lead for The Clash of Civilizations
                              A Unique civ-like game that will feature low micromanagement, great AI, and a Detailed Government model including internal power struggles. Demo 8 available Now! (go to D8 thread at top of forum).
                              Check it out at the Clash Web Site and Forum right here at Apolyton!

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