Graphical Interfaces

[LDiCesare]

(the panels being fixed to the edge of the screen, not annoying floaty boxes - it's not photoshop, it's a game!).

I actually like windows that I can rearrange and move.

[Gary Thomas]

While graphical interfaces are an interesting subject, they are likely to be coding intensive. Combine this with the fact that they are a relatively low priority essentially means that anyone suggesting extensive work in this area will have to do the coding themselves. I certainly have much higher priorities, and I assume that Laurent is in the same position. This means that any development of graphical interfaces, at this point, will probably not lead anywhere and just cause frustration.

However, units and terrain (and leader portraits) do not need any coding to implement - just minor changes to the scenario files, which are easily(?) edited text files. My personal second priority (after save/restore) is a scenario editor. So graphic efforts directed to that area will see the light of day almost immediately.

Cheers

[yellowdaddy]

alright,

units, faces, but i'll leave terrain to someone else (i saw some mountains that looked quite nice on a gfx thread, like they'd been scanned from a photo or something)

to Laurent - (i don't like windows at all, but I know that some others will), I'm looking for a compromise windows that are of fixed size (for the data they contain) that you can move (if you must! ) but not a mess of windows please!!!

[Gary Thomas]

i don't like windows at all

Given a choice between something that is just a personal preference, such as your dislike of windows, and something that adds functionality, such as the ability to move them around and change their sizes (and have the program remember your choices, which it does) then I must plump for the functionality. To remove functionality because someone doesn't like it is pretty much against the tenor of reasonable programming.

On the other hand, unconstrained popups irritate me. We originally had a message window, that all the information went to. Unfortunately it scrolled past so fast you couldn't read it. The present system is pretty much a compromise, to get things operating.

Cheers

[yellowdaddy]

it's not solely a personal preference, i think there are other reasons both aesthetic and do do with gameplay.
I think Civ Test of Time seems to be the sort of direction we should head in, it seems like it might satisfy all.

which reminds me - the Y/N box you requested, please could you give me some more detail of what you're after?

[LDiCesare]

windows that are of fixed size

That's one feature I hate in Windows (the OS): they managed to create windows you can't resize or move. When suddenly, for an unexpected reason, the text to display is too big, you are stuck. I've see screens which were impossible to use because a text field couldn't be enlarged and its size was fixed for English language. In Japanese or Chinese (kanji) it was too small.
I also generally stop browsing any web site that uses flash (fixed layout) or uses fixed fonts because, even though the people who did the site may think of it as nice, I feel I can't use that.

Now ToT had a nice enough default layout and the windows were nice enough that you could leave them as is most of the time, but could change it, particularly when switching from one resolution ot another (800x600 and then going 1024 will mean you will probably want more space for the main map for example).

We have too many popups, this I can agree with, but I can't think of anything better right now (or anything I'd like to code now, to be more precise).

[Gary Thomas]

We have too many popups, this I can agree with, but I can't think of anything better right now (or anything I'd like to code now, to be more precise).

I have rarely been in such precise agreement as I am with this statement.

Cheers

[yellowdaddy]

so we can settle on having less windows, which you can change the dimensions of and move around, and these windows perform a fixed set of functions.

ok

well, the interface i've drawn can allow for that (i can add windows features round the edges)

and i've done a little tabbed data box where all the pop data could manifest itself...

i'll send you a WIP gif if you like...

[Gattsuden]

Hi, im new to the forums. I am an artist and I would like to help this project.

I like to do logos and crap, and I would like to get some exp making GUIs and other things. I can do sprites, vector, traditional and digital art too. I work pretty fast, and can handle most art related tasks.

Ive played the demo, and I must say it is difficult. I tryed to fight the barbarian, but both of my units were beaten.... Also I never figured out how to make my population use the farms...

If you guys want I can get started on anything right away.
Contact me through AIM SN is Gattsuden

[yellowdaddy]

welcome, bienvenue, failte, bienvenudos, (etc..) Gattsuden!

please check my webpage on my signature for my efforts so far.

I'm trying to gather together the graphics into a place where everyone can keep track of what's what.

There are more gfx than this of course, but it's a start.
As you can see the most recent thing I've been doing is
drawing ship units.

I've posted a thread call the "Graphics To Do List" so we can all keep track of what's been done and what needs doing.

I think only Gary and Laurant are actively coding at the moment, so I look to them to get ideas on what needs doing.

I think on the horizon there'll be a need for a new set of
terrain overlays, but for now may I suggest you have a go at doing a set of ancient land units?
The reason being is that the human units that exist already aren't uniform in style or size.
I think a nice set of ancient world units - Roman, Greek, Persian, Carthaginian/Phillistine/Phoenician (they're the same people really), Barbarian, Mesopotamian would be good.
Especially the Roman and Carthaginian ones as that seems to be the main focus of the demo.
{I think some more oriental ones: Mongol/Turk, Chinese, Japanese, Arab, Indian might be welcome too (Mongolian horsemen, Elephants, Chariots,)}

Laurant's already done some units (this is the current units thread):

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40462&pagenumber=3

there's some here that aren't Clash's but you might want to use them as "models" to draw your own prettier ones http://apolyton.net/forums/attachmen...postid=1773797

And some lists here further along the same thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?

s=&threadid=40462&perpage=15&pagenumber=8


As for terrain, still waiting... I'm not sure when the new polygon map is due or if it will be in the next demo.

There's certainly a need for a set of nice coastal overlays (cliffs, beaches, mangroves, reefs...) and some river and canal overlays.

I was intending to do some City overlays but I'm waiting for feedback on that. I was also about to begin some "flora" overlays - jungle, forest, scrub, but again I'm not entirely sure what's required - ie. whether they are for a 3d iso map or a polygon map...

It'd be great if you set up a free website like I have to post JPEGs or GIFs of completed units, and post what you've completed on the "Graphics To Do List".

Hopefully Gary and Laurant will be able to clarify what's next on the Graphics agenda.

The update is well out of date (Last Update: 1/10/03) , but this was the state of play:
Graphics: {Laurent, Gary, N} [P] WE REALLY NEED ARTISTS!
• Main Interface Layout and Art {N} [P]
• Map Terrain Tiles {N} [P]
• City Tiles {N} [P]
• Army Graphics {N} [P]
• Other Interface Art (many interfaces) {N}
• Misc. (Logo Art for web page, manual…) {N}
from: here

I think we may be able to update this now - it'd certainly be helpful.
Once you've digested this post, please state your preferences for task areas you'd like to take on:

- Personally I like doing vehicle units, but don't like doing human units, so I'd appreciate it if you'd take that one on, but naturally you should do what you enjoy the most. If you have PSP7, you might like to investigate doing animated stick men - so we can have amusing death animations - garotting, exploding, chopping... stick man animations are fun, and might add some amusement to the game.

- I've done more work on character faces than is evident on my site, so I'd like to stick with that one please. (it's not a high priority thing right now anyway)

- Interfaces, City Tiles and Terrain tiles we can share They certainly need more than one person to do, but should be done in sets such as "all coastal overlays", "all land tiles" "all vegetation overlays" etc..., for style continuity.
The diplomacy screen is one that will need some attention - i'll post the thread link on here later.

- Logo Art seems to be right up your street, so fill your boots!

[Gattsuden]

Hey, nice graphics on your site. You want me to start on some logo concepts too? The unit graphics thread is pretty big, so I am still reading it. I will what i can do to help about units after I finish readin it.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi Gattsuden, welcome to Clash!

You should check out the demo to see what the sort of slots we have currently available for logos are. I have to admit, I like our current logo, but would be happy to look at any concepts you come up with. Hopefully we can get some requests from the coders for art for the new interfaces, or any that may be redone soon. I hope you understand that functionality is the highest priority on what they are doing. But if it's not too much coding work to make it look decent we should go for it.

[yellowdaddy]

Hi Gattsuden,

I don't know if logos are a big priority - but I think if you feel an urge to do something, you should follow it - nobody was particularly enthusiastic about me indulging myself in drawing that oldskool game interface, but i enjoyed doing it, and hopefully it'll influence the final look of the game.

I think if you're interested, doing the "Sumerian stick men" might be worth a go - I'm thinking of "North and South" and "Lemmings" which have great death anims - i think it'd be great fun and a refreshing change from the traditional units like you get in Civ and similar games.
If people only play this game just to watch the unit animations of them being crushed, sliced, chopped, exploded, squashed, and minced then we've done our job - lots of amusing squirty blood, and speech bubbles would be funny.
Just start off with Roman soldiers an barbarians.
Simple small palletes and 4-colour stick men should take the legwork out of it. What do you think?

[Mark_Everson]

Um, there aren't plans for unit animations of any sort at the moment. They hog Enormous amounts of processor power that we want to use for AI. Additionally, we will not be able to compete successfully for the eyeballs of those who get a charge out of units gushing blood as they die. That is a very effort-intensive approach. We don't have the many full-time artists needed to succeed with that approach.

Of course, further in the future lots of things are possible, but for the foreseeable future in development, static units are going to be the norm. Sorry if that is a surprise. Is there something on the web site or in the forum that gives the impression we were going to have animated units?

[Gattsuden]

Static sprites are good. Its alot easier than animation, though I can animate pretty well too. If all the sprites will be static I can work at a good pace.