Civiliza - work continues

[dexter4dxm]

After another much needed break from Civiliza, I'm back to get a lot of coding done. My schedule is much more full now however, and progress will not be as rapid as it was before.

That doesn't mean I don't have big plans. I'm hoping to really impress some people with demo 5.

Until then, here's an another update to Civilza - 4d

The following changes/additions have been made since the last release:

-Added city names. They don't center perfectly yet, and they
are fixed names based on city number, but hey at least they are in.
-Fixed dissapearing unit bug (temporary disabling right-side
unit clipping).
-Decreased amount of damage that walls protect against.
-Fixed bug where city names would not be saved properly.


You can either
1) Full install 4b, then update to 4c, then update to 4d.

or

2) Full install 4d.

download at http://www.geocities.com/dexter4dxm/

[Miznia]

Hi, Dexter. I'm happy to hear you're still working on Civiliza. I'll try it out when I'm not on a Mac...

My own project is dead; I got Civ3 and CTP2 (and EU2) for Christmas and lost track of what my vision was. I'd say, though, that it would be a combination of 1) simplicity (rather than having "governors," I'd prefer that there actually be fewer things to be done with individual cities... for instance, how you don't place a city's workers, in CTP2) and 2) diplomatically active and dynamic AI players (I kind of liked Civ3 here).

So that's my last two cents, I think.

Miznia

[dexter4dxm]

miznia: sorry to hear your project is no more. i hope you can stick around and offer ideas.


everyone: i could use some help with the project. i've got a good idea of where i'm heading with this, but i think i'm going to be missing some details along the way. i'd like to hear any ideas or comments about the game. i have diplomacy and peice sliding on the wanted list, but i need more. i wasn't kidding about trying to make demo 5 impressive. i want to pack tons of good working features into it, and make it complete as a game. in fact, it won't even be called demo 5, and it won't be called civiliza either (if you have a good idea for a name, i'm listening )

so if u have some extra time and you'd like to help out, i'd appreciate any input.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Dex, I would quite like to help out. I can't programme but I'd quite like to help out with regards to the interface and customisation (text files etc.), along with doing general stuff.

[tishco]

look on civ 4 the list 4 ideas
here are some from me:
civil wars
smac like diplo, friends and pacts and stuff, but sort of like civ3s, variety on bargains
pretty good ai, look at cevo, i think theirs is good
MAD
some way of having no workers
good tech tree
exiting rewards

names:
civilisation
something with history, or empire

tishco

[dexter4dxm]

Originally posted by Chris Wilkinson
Dex, I would quite like to help out. I can't programme but I'd quite like to help out with regards to the interface and customisation (text files etc.), along with doing general stuff.

i would very much appreciate your assistance. i'm not even looking for help with the actual coding, just help designing and fixing the game.

i consider the interface one of the most important parts of the project, and although i have some guidelines as to what it can consist of, i'm pretty open to ideas. basically i want to keep it as simple and un-cluttered as possible, while still providing enough functionality. the more of the map the user can view, the better. right now there is nearly nothing blocking the view of the map, and i would like to keep it that way if i can. a few questions this brings up:

1) mini-map. should there be a small map in the corner like in civ3 or a full screen map the user can bring up, or both? also, if we are going to have a small mini-map i suggest being able to toggle it on and off.

2) general layout of the main map view. how does the current structure look? (resources listed on top left going to right. logo on top right, population bottom left, year and public works points on bottom right and messages on bottom middle). if you ask me, i like how the small bars don't restrict the view of the map and still provide all the information the player needs.

3) main map interface buttons. should there be small buttons the user can click on to perform any actions the unit has (such as settler building a city or any combat unit fortifying itslef). i say no. i mean does anyone actually take the time to bring the mouse all the way down to use those buttons every time they need a unit to do something? maybe newbies, but they should learn how to play the game the way it is meant to be played anyways, and speaking of which, one of my early design rules was to limit the amount of switching between use of the keyboard and use of the mouse, if not just limiting the use of the mouse altogether. my suggestion is to do away with any interface buttons and use hot-keys for everything (we will need a help page refering to the keys).

4) current unit info. should there be a box that has all the info about the currently selected unit, like in civ3? not much to say about this one. i'm not even sure if it is a good idea or not. if we do decide it is necessary though, i want to at least make so you can toggle it on and off.

that's about it for the main map interface for now. most of the help i will need will be for the various menus and windows that pop up. i don't know where to start on those, so feel free to start some discussions

now as for the editable text files, are you offering to help me with the structure of the files, or the actual editing of the values in them in order to balance/improve the gameplay? i hope it is the latter of the two because i could really use the help there.

thanks for any help

[dexter4dxm]

Originally posted by tishco
look on civ 4 the list 4 ideas

not a bad idea, i hadn't thought of that. i should even take a look at older lists and discussions

civil wars

already part of the plans. this one is a little bit tricky, because it will be hard to play-test the historical accuracy of it (how often do civil wars actually happen anyways?). i would like civil wars to be handled in a similar way to civ3 (well, actually i have never seen a civil war in civ3 - i'm going by what i've read), in that the cities that are the most currupt will break off into the new nation. the problem with this is that you are likely to end up with a core of friendly cities, and a cirlcle of rebel cities surrounding you. this is not how it should be - the rebel cities should be grouped together somewhat.

smac like diplo, friends and pacts and stuff, but sort of like civ3s, variety on bargains

i am not very familiar with smac, although i have played it (for like 10 min or so...). i would like to strike a balance between civ2 and civ3 on this one. i'm actually doing the coding for the diplomacy right now, so we can discuss this further soon.

pretty good ai, look at cevo, i think theirs is good

i haven't got a chance to fool around with cevo, mostly because it is not featured here in these forums and i like checking out the projects of the developers who are here. btw, does cevo have diplomacy yet?

MAD

this has been planned from the beginning, i wouldn't worry about it.

some way of having no workers

already took care of that

good tech tree
exiting rewards

going to need help with these two. not only will there be rewards but there will be disasters to.

names:
civilisation
something with history, or empire

i still haven't come up with many ideas. so far "global conflict" is all i've come up with, and let's not kid each other - conflict is what this game is all about (and every other civ game i've played in depth so far)

thanks for the input, tischo, keep the ideas coming

[dexter4dxm]

i wasn't going to release anything until version 1.0, but if i'm going to have people helping me with this thing i will probably be better off making releases as we go. that way we can discuss everything freely and make changes from testing.

if i can get commited help from only a few people it would be worth it; on the other hand, making weekly builds for no one seems rather silly.

what do you think? open beta testing?

[tishco]

cevo has diplo now, like civ3s only better, all it needs is resorses, and maybe better rewards and it beats civ 3

smac has pacts, surrenders, and telling others to do stuff, "attack so and so, and lets attack this city" or you take this city and i'll take this 1"

like moo2 i suppose, if you've played it

[Chris Wilkinson]

I've had a few ideas about the interface...I'll try and get some examples done asap.

[dexter4dxm]

Originally posted by tishco
cevo has diplo now, like civ3s only better, all it needs is resorses, and maybe better rewards and it beats civ 3
smac has pacts, surrenders, and telling others to do stuff, "attack so and so, and lets attack this city" or you take this city and i'll take this 1"
like moo2 i suppose, if you've played it

moo2 was a great game, it just had horrible multiplayer (well, hotseat was okay i guess...) and too much micromanagement at the latter stages of the game (just like civ2 and civ3). moo2 had a pretty good diplomacy system, however it is a little too straightforward and limited.
as for cevo, i'm going to have to download it and check it out.
i like what you are saying about smac. i would like to add similar options one day.

to be honest, i just about prefer civ2's diplomacy over civ3's. i think it is great how you can mix and match trades in civ3, but it really lost its personal touch with the agreements.

[Chris Wilkinson]

Here's an example dialog box...it's quite a simple, plain design but it looks good IMO and games sometimes tend to go OTT trying to make things too snazzy...

[tishco]

good design of the popup
but a sugestion is 2 have a news screen like champ man (as much as i hate it)

the civ3 diplomacy ai is stupid and impersonal, i agree, it doesnt even have a tone of voice control thing

[dexter4dxm]

i like it too. i don't know how to do in-game translucency yet, but that can be adjusted later.

[Chris Wilkinson]

I don't know how you want to store the graphics required for the interface but I'll chop it up anyway and send it to you. I've had some ideas for menus etc., I'll get an example of them posted soon.