cEvo..lution is, right now... way ahead!

[LDiCesare]

I saw the city types and found the interface ugly enough to forget it. In CtP2, I don't use custom lists, which is the same as city types. I just stack a pile of maybe 20 turns worth of orders and wait for the stack to empty. Having fixed lists is not good for me, as, when a type X city has finished its production, I want to review whether I want it to become of another type. Thus types of cities is too static for me to be useful.

I saw tech queueing, but even civ2 has something like that (setting objectives) so I kind of expected it.

I didn't try 3rd party AIs. Where do you get some such(preferably good ones)? Are there many? I somehow don't think the model of replaceable dll's will work well. You can't take the diplomacy part of a dll and put it with the fighting intelligence of another one (compare that to what a scripted model can do, like CtP2). Maybe I am wrong.

I find a bit sad that this project is not more ambitious. They don't want stacked combat, nor random resources on maps (but map is random- you can't say you want a non random game if you have random maps...). "Avoiding risk" (sic) allows them to make a good civ clone, with unit workshop added, but the combat model stinks in comparison with f.e. CtP2...

[St Leo]

when a type X city has finished its production, I want to review whether I want it to become of another type. Thus types of cities is too static for me to be useful.

What's preventing you from doing that in cEvo? You are notified whenever production is finished and city type selection is handled by presenting them as a special kind of city improvement.

Where do you get some such(preferably good ones)?

http://www.c-evo.org/

You can't take the diplomacy part of a dll and put it with the fighting intelligence of another one

You can, however, have several different AIs playing in the same game.

[Mark_Everson]

Hi St Leo:

AI has been the most important thing in preventing me from looking seriously into civ-evo. I did play it a little bit about 6 months ago...

Last I heard (several months back) the AIs still were thought not be competitive even at the level of the atrocious Civ2 AI. Has that changed? When civ-evo gets to the stage where the AI is significantly better, I'll be checking it out again.

Cya,

Mark

[LDiCesare]

St Leo, thanks for the link, I'll try to check it.
If I make a queue and am presented with "finished building" before the end of the queue, I don't have a queue. I will try it.
Having different AIs doesn't change much from a single code using different attitudes/tactics.
I think I'll download some stuff to check it.

[LDiCesare]

St Leo, that AI is much better. It still needs double production to be a challenge, but at least it is aggressive. Too much so, in fact, as it forgets to defend itself. It makes it alll the more dangerous if it gets you first, but it just reminds me of ICSers. It is sad the system doesn't allow for stacked combat. That means no combined arms strategy, just build fast powerful land units with no defense (since offense is typically between 5 and 10 times defense, it is pretty useless to build static defense). The AI can be good because the game system is oversimplified IMO.
Still, it is fun to play, but will get very repetitive.
I understand they don't want randomness (except in map!?) but randomly chosen AIs among those available would probably be more challenging than what the game allows now.
btw happy birthday, St Leo.

[St Leo]

Last I heard (several months back) the AIs still were thought not be competitive even at the level of the atrocious Civ2 AI.

1. I suspect that the non-default cEvo AIs are much better than Civ2's at waging long-range war. Their tech research capabilities aren't horrible either. I've tried AIs in the pre-0.10 and they were far better than me at abusing the system.
2. Personally, I was looking for a game that would let me build-up a small civilization nestled among neighbours that would never be attacked. The default AI gives me that. Civ2's AI goes nuts once 1750 rolls around and prevents me from enjoying the game.

If I make a queue and am presented with "finished building" before the end of the queue, I don't have a queue.

It's not unpleasant or micromanagey if you switch from notification dialogues to a notification list.

randomly chosen AIs among those available would probably be more challenging than what the game allows now.

Interesting idea.

btw happy birthday, St Leo.

Thanks.

[Mark_Everson]

Originally posted by St Leo
Last I heard (several months back) the AIs still were thought not be competitive even at the level of the atrocious Civ2 AI.

1. I suspect that the non-default cEvo AIs are much better than Civ2's at waging long-range war. Their tech research capabilities aren't horrible either. I've tried AIs in the pre-0.10 and they were far better than me at abusing the system.
2. Personally, I was looking for a game that would let me build-up a small civilization nestled among neighbours that would never be attacked.

Thanks for the info St Leo. Yours is the first basically positive comparison I've heard comparing Civ2 and civ-evo AIs. Next time I feel like something new to play, I'll try the forum again and see if the balance of opinion has changed.

You like a very different sort of game from me, but I'm glad you can get it in civ-evo.

-Mark

[LDiCesare]

The AI may be good, but the game promotes ICS even more so than civ2. Make mobile units, like attack 30/def 6, when the defender can only make 18/18 or 21/21 units. You move faster, so you can always kill their units in the open. Only units inside city walls would pose a problem but the AI doesn't use that, and the resources model (civ2 shields) makes it easy to besiege a city, destroy its defenders or population by sitting on good tiles, then attack by sacrificing 2 units.
The game is fun once but the AI really is not a challenge once you understood the mechanisms of the game. Unless you give it production advantages, which is in fact what civ does, but I never found that interesting.

Stacked combat and/or higher defense available to units, attack value not tied to movement, would make this game better. A whole new combat model. But maybe I aml seriously biased here