Alt Civs and complexity

[dexter4dxm]

hey miznia did u see my screenshot in the other thread?

[dexter4dxm]

i just got lots of programming done that i've been putting off because it was a hurdle that wasn't very exciting but needed to be done. well, i'm happy to say that i'm getting very close to having something i can show you, as in a download of the actual game not just a screenshot. i've decided to go the real-time route afterall, at the possible expense of having less civs in the game. as soon as i implement a basic combat system into the game, i will show u a playable version

[RonHiler]

Hey Dexter, once you have a downloadable version, be sure to send me link addresses and such, and all the information needed to put you into the Alt-Civ Guide table.

Also, if you want a spot in the Alt-Civ section, send me content to go inside it (take a look at some of the existing ones to get an idea of what is inside. We're probably going to lose the reviews though, since they're way out of date).

Ron

[dexter4dxm]

sounds good. i have a couple questions though:

1) how playable does the game have to be? the very first version i'm planning on releasing will only feature a small melee battle against the computer. all you will be able to do is move units around a small island and fight the computer, is that enough?

2) do i have to remove all artwork taken from other games (mainly Civ2)?

[RonHiler]

Originally posted by dexter4dxm
1) how playable does the game have to be? the very first version i'm planning on releasing will only feature a small melee battle against the computer. all you will be able to do is move units around a small island and fight the computer, is that enough?

Yes, that's plenty. You only need convince me that you're seriously committed to the project. This entails having some kind of demo available. Statistics show that, as far as games which are produced by amateurs go, many many games are designed, a very few ever get out of that stage and into coding (fewer still ever get to Alpha or Beta or Gold, but that's a different thing altogether). IMO, once you have gotten far enough to have a framework around which to build your game (ie a working demo in which the player has some interaction, however small), you have shown you are serious enough to warrent a spot in the Alt-Civ section.

That requirement is there simply because I don't want to clutter up the section with too much dead wood. It would become difficult to navigate if there are too many games there, especially if many are not even in coding stage yet. OTOH, I want to give all small developers of TBS games an equal chance to show off what they have to the public. So I think this is a good comprimise requirement. I hope I'm not sounding too power-trippy, heh. Y'all can certainly let me know if you have any better ideas on how to manage what games should be in and which ones are not ready yet.

2) do i have to remove all artwork taken from other games (mainly Civ2)?

I'm not a lawyer, by any means. I've had some experience with copyright issues as regards my own game, but that certainly makes me no expert. As far as I'm concerned, you can leave it in as long as it's understood they are temporary placeholder graphics. However, if I am told by those in power above me (such as Mark or Dan, or worse yet the company whose graphics you are using) to take it down, down it will come.

Ron

[dexter4dxm]

I completely understand what you are saying about projects not even making it to some kind of demo stage. I believe you are correct in saying that most amatuer projects don't even reach serious coding, and for those that do make it to that point, many either give up once a problem can't be figured out quickly or they simply get tired of working on the same thing and quit. It is very difficult to keep consistently working on the same project and keep interest. Part of this has to do with the fact that hours and hours of work contribute to only a small number of obvious changes. Progress breeds excitement, and excitement breeds more progress, but it is very hard to progress quickly with this kind of stuff, especially if you're working alone.

I doubt that I will quit on this one. Aside from all the excitement I get by getting somewhere with my coding, I have lots of influence from Civ2 (not to mention Civ3 when it gets here). There's also the reason why I began this project in the first place: to have something to put in my portfolio for game companies.

I look forward to working with you in the future with Alt-Civ

[dexter4dxm]

ugh, AI programming is such a b****!

as soon as i implement the most basic of AI move/combat routines, demo 1 will be ready...

[dexter4dxm]

oops! the problem wasn't my AI logic, it was a '1' that should have been a '0'
a few more bugs to fix, should have demo ready within a day or two

[toblo]

Ahhh!

This seems like my kind of discussion!

"Alt Civvers Anonymous"

I read that someone had made a map-generator - I'd love to exchange notes! -I've really only gotten as far as generating interesting heightfilelds for the landmasses (triangular plasma, in a horisontally rotating world)

I've started a new thread around these here parts; check it out - and also check out the site: http://www.toblo.homestead.com/files (yes, the lyout DOES suck )

Happy trails!
/toblo

[dexter4dxm]

Re: Ahhh!

Originally posted by toblo
I read that someone had made a map-generator - I'd love to exchange notes! -I've really only gotten as far as generating interesting heightfilelds for the landmasses (triangular plasma, in a horisontally rotating world)

If you haven't already, check out the map-generator thread in the Clash of Civilizations forum http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=12282

I've started a new thread around these here parts; check it out - and also check out the site: http://www.toblo.homestead.com/files (yes, the lyout DOES suck )

I have a high amount of interest in your project. It looks really good

-dex

[toblo]

Thanks for the encouragement!

So you're fighting with the AI-code, huh?
Tell me about it - I haven't gotten serious in that area yet, but I've studied pretty much of it at the university, so I might have a tip or two.. who knows

What project are you on?

Lap-sang tea tastes reeeally odd, by the way

[dexter4dxm]

not much to say at this point. so far my project uses very limited AI routines. my next release is supposed have diplomacy, so i'm expecting more involved routines then. i think i noticed something on your page mentioning A* pathfinding. do you know how to implement that? i understand it, i just don't know how to code it.

[toblo]

Yup! I got my A* algorithm running real fine!

Implementation can be done in a bunch of ways - here's a page with some links:

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~amitp/gameprog.html#Paths

I made a function in my map-class that generates A* paths for anything that can move in the game - they are all subclasses of the "mover" class. These subclasses override the function GetMovementCost(hex *from, hex*to) of the mover-class, which makes it possible to customize the pathmaking for different kinds of movers - for example I recently added roads in the game, which halve the movement-cost of heroes, and it was very easy to add that with my current setup - I can recommend it

"Stupid question be like mushroom on feet - after while; Very Annoying" - chinese proverb (not)

[dexter4dxm]

okayyyyyyyyy

that's the page i got all my info from, in fact the pathfinding routine i finally decided on i learned from a link off that site.

i'm still lost as far as A* goes. man i wish i understood how to code it because my AI pathfinding is too limited/slow

good job

[toblo]

been there

yeah, A* was a bit hard to get into, but now that it's there I don't have to think about it anymore
I think I made mine by looking at some nice pseudocode

I'll see if I can reverse-engineer my code back into pseudocode