Comments on "Joe"

[Alinestra Covelia]

One more comment and an apology... more than two years too late. One of my posts says that Forge is the smallest of the would-be magtrain hijackers. It then lists her height at about 1.83 meters.

This would be perfectly feasible on the moon or other heavenly bodies where the gravitational field is weaker than the Earth, but on Planet we are told the gravity is significantly greater. In that case, the average height of a homo sapiens would probably be shorter than one living on Earth. Given this, it's hard to imagine Forge being "petite", at 1.83m which translates to about 6' in the Imperial standard.

SPOT THE METRIC NEWBIE!!!

Yes, yes. I know. Sorry.

[Mr. President]

My mother still has a sort of cognitive dissonance where she reads the speed limit signs which are, of course, written in kilometers per hour, but speaks them with the word "miles". Things like "The limit's low around here, only 50 miles an hour" and suchlike. That of course gives me cognitive dissonance and I walk into a wall.

[Sovereign]

OMG.

Comments on Joe after a year? Hot damn. I remember when I was eagerly awaiting new installments of Joe.

This reminds me of some other old stoires such as the one Ragtag Mouse wrote, I forgot the title. It has been THAT long that I forgot the titles of some fanfics here.

I guess BAC's the only one going, and seems like once it stops, ends, or "dies" then AC Fiction forum / threads will be officially dead.

[Alinestra Covelia]

Well, once I've got time enough and space, I'll be working on a prequel. This is a pretty definite plan, but those of you who are familiar with my writing habits know not to hold your breath.

[Sovereign]

......

(holds breath)

(face turns red)

(face turns blue)

(face turns pale)

(face starts to decompose)



Seriously, I'd love to have either a sequel or pre-quel to Joe. Hell, I'd settle for ANY well written AC fiction. I remember when I first came to AC Fiction and read the fanfics. There was a full page of links, like 15 - 20 stories going on.

Now on a few occassions, the whole forum is empty. No links, not even to BAC or the BAC discussion threads. Pretty sad, huh?

[girlfight_club]

Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
Given this, it's hard to imagine Forge being "petite", at 1.83m which translates to about 6' in the Imperial standard.

SPOT THE METRIC NEWBIE!!!

Yes, yes. I know. Sorry.

I learned the metric system by reading George Lucas' Star Wars novelization. In the first chapter he describes Artoo as being one meter tall, and Vader as two meters tall.

Haven't been confused by it since!!

GFC

[Sovereign]

Is that for real?

If all mathematics and learning methods were THAT easy, American kids would be much smarter.

[Mr. President]

I actually thought the Darth Vader actor was more than two meters tall.

[Sovereign]

I remember buying a Star Wars Character Encylopedia about 10 years ago, and it stated Darth Vader was 2.02 meters tall or so.

[MysticWind]

It’s been half a decade since your story’s completion, and I post now to continue its legacy. I know it’s probably easier for me to private message you, but hey- someone’s got to shake up this forum. Call me the Minority Whip of Apolyton’s SMAC Community.

But enough of the shameless self-promotion. Quite simply, Joe is not only the best SMAC fanfiction I’ve ever read, but probably the best fanfiction as well. It’s no hyperbole; you’ve created an entire universe out of hints and references, and your work completely outstrips the minimalist novelization of Michael Ely. Ely never created a convincingly real world- you have. I’ve read great fanfiction before, but they always relied on already established universes: Star Wars, Harry Potter, X-Com. Unlike Ely’s world, yours lives and breathes, with a setting and characters that seem to be much better than the run-of-the-mill space colonization milieu. Additionally, unlike Ely’s simplistic “junior novelization” style, your story read like an actual novel.

I really enjoyed the “capture” of Agent Bing. I’m jaded by the special ops, cover squad, stealth masters-type action that’s been flourishing ever since Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six and Metal Gear Solid. The capture sequence was well planned, and it really beat the hell out of most of what I’ve read recently. You didn’t just make the stealth futuristic, you made the soldiers and preparation of the Hive truly hard-core. They didn’t just sneak around, they were prepared for any contingency, for any possibility, and were willing to toss away their lives- not because of daredevilry, but because it’s not a big issue anymore.

You also made excellent characterizations of the faction leaders. Especially Yang- he was made into a truly bad-ass, superhuman Fu Manchu. He is beyond good or evil, and unlike most other fanfictions, he is not simply a foolish despot, but instead a master of a nation that is quite reminiscent to ancient China.

Though I never ever got to know what made Agent Hu tick, you made him into an interesting, colorful character, as well as Jorenson, McClelland, Joe, Aurum, Tryskel, and the Datatech spies. You gave them emotional content and believability, and it was very original and non-cliché.

My only complaint is that along with all fanfics, the Planetary Council sequences are nothing like the real United Nations. Of course, that has to do with me being a Model U.N. wonk. Other than that, yours were much more realistic than Ely’s sequences where Lal talked to his advisors, and you really made parliamentary procedure exciting, I daresay that Joe has the best sequences inside any fictional assembly, except maybe when Yoda fought the Emperor in the Senate.

Kudos!

So I have some questions about your work:

1. Why did Lydia go through the process of accessing and deleting random posts and accounts during her assignment?

2. Yang’s Second comments that he could have removed Hu through a diplomatic ferry. Why didn’t he just do that, instead of making it seem like Hu was to be executed at home?

3. Did the bodyguard who killed himself in the capture of Hu have a clone back home? Or was he so dedicated to his job that he knew that he was completely expendable?

4. Actually, the reason for why hanged men orgasm before death has to do with what happens to the spine and structure of the body, not some evolutionary instinct.

5. What’s the reference to Gaians chosen from the Newcastle-Gateshead Nature Preserve? Did you choose that place because Deirdre is Scottish, or because you know the lingo of the area?

6. What does TQVM stand for?

7. Are the Caretakers also man-eaters, like the Usurpers?

8. What’s Pravidence?

9. What kind of people in each faction get longevity treatments, besides the leader?

10. How does the HK Algorithm work? After all, probe teams need not necessarily be powersuited ninjas, vulnerable to electronic attacks.

11. You mention later on that if Joe returned to the Hive, the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm would kill him. Considering that he isn't implanted with the device, how is that possible?

12. What are Lal's Ten Points?

13. I noticed that you had Sheng-ji Yang labelled as former Executive Officer, not Head of Security. However, you mentioned Santiago's role in nearly single-handedly causing Unity to be ripped asunder, as chronicled in Michael Ely's "official" novelization and novella. Which set of "canon" did you use in determining the backstory of the faction leaders for this story?

14. You have Lal being amused at the Hive's self-proclaimed "war against treachery." Was that a sly reference to modern-day political realities? Or did you write it before 9/11? Also, kudos for characterizing Lal as a machiavellian and a somewhat fanatic peacemaker, eager to forcibly liberate the Hive. How oxymoronic!

15. I think you may have misused the word "saturnine."

16. Did Christianity disappear along with the Believers? It seems like the diplomats are referencing God an inordinate number of times for the United Nations.

17. Why did you have the Chiron version of the U.N. have an electoral college? You wrote this fanfic after 2000, didn't you? I'm pretty sure only the U.S. is the only organization- country or otherwise- to use the stupid thing.

18. Also, I don't understand what you meant about Lal packing the electoral college with supporters. Don't the members have to vote according to the majority of the population in the area they represent? And what did you mean when Zakharov said that the Gaians could pack their electoral college with psychic profiling?

19. How did Hommel die? Why couldn't his flight squadron have picked him up after his crash?

20. Cryosleep mousepad?

21. When did Tryskel actually fly a Fusion-powered aircraft?

22. I'm amused that the ending of your story, while very heartwarming, almost completely neglects to bring any faction closer to any of the standard endings of SMAC. The status quo is pretty much maintained, with no faction getting an upper hand with Cyborg Factory, and none challenging the Hive or the University for Fusion. The personality developments, too, seem to be mainly exterior, changes in identity and status. I'd say Prentice changed the most.

23. Why don't the factions blame Santiago and the Spartans for creating the rebellion that basically destroyed Unity?

24. How does Hu know that Prentice was pregnant?

25. Will you ever publish your fanfic somewhere else besides Apolyton? Why not Fanfiction.net?

To conclude, this is hands down the best fanfiction I have ever read, anywhere, ever. Kudos. Are you working on anything else right now?

[Alinestra Covelia]

*clicks on "My Threads" link to check out my offtopic posts*

*somebody has commented on Joe!*

...O_o...

Yes, it's been a long time!

Brings a teardrop to the eye to read this old chestnut. Imagine being in labor for two years giving birth to an epic fetus and you have how I feel. (For guys, just imagine being constipated for an equivalent amount of time. And replace the fetus with whatever.)

First off, many hugs and kisses and blushes for your kind words. What a nice thing to say! If Joe was a pregnancy it would be like maybe five years old now.

*looks around quickly*

Ahem.

Now that we got that out of the way, here are a few questions, as best as I can remember them. Bear in mind it's been a while...

Michael Ely ... never created a convincingly real world- you have.

Well, I'd say his goal and definitely his time constraints were different - Ely was writing in conjunction with the game, as well as working on the main project himself. His work was very inspirational (especially the scenes onboard the Unity) and Joe draws directly from it in many places because - let's face it - it saves time if you don't have to reinvent an excellent story in the first place.

And I was writing with the luxury of not having to answer to editors or proofreaders, and the choice to walk away from it and not write anything for six months at a time. Ely most likely did not have this option. It's like comparing a newspaper article with a magazine feature - they do different things and I'd say Ely's stories fill in the game background and faction squabbles perfectly.

(NB I still have not read any of the novels - just the extracts in the SMAC and SMAX manuals. But they're high on my list.)

I really enjoyed the “capture” of Agent Bing.

Thanks! I also worked for a long while on that sequence, and I think I got through three drafts just trying to make it interesting and realistic. Hu Man Bing himself (the nickname of my roommate of Durham, UK) said he was flattered his namesake died in such a kick-arse way, although he also said he felt sorry that his nickname was so artificial sounding. Looking back, I also think HMB's name sounds out of place, although I had teased with an idea of explaining it in a prequel.

I am not particularly happy with the way I wrote in Mao Zhun's vision in Bing's mindprobe - the whole "clone fingers" scene was badly done and I would rewrite it if I had the chance.

Yang ... is not simply a foolish despot, but instead a master of a nation that is quite reminiscent to ancient China.

Glad you liked him! That's what I was trying to do when I started, and I'm happy it worked believably. Now I look at it, there are times when he sounds a bit like a fortune cookie, but I wanted to make sure he didn't come off as a brutal thug. Later on, when I introduced other leaders, I kept that in mind - nobody is truly good, and nobody is truly evil; the demands of leadership transcends all that, democratic or not.

Though I never ever got to know what made Agent Hu tick,

I didn't know this at the time, but after detailed study of the real-life original, it appears the answer is "NutraSweet".

My only complaint is that along with all fanfics, the Planetary Council sequences are nothing like the real United Nations.

Yes, I became aware of this too after one of my colleagues started working at the UN in New York. Another thing to improve on, if I summon the time and will to do so.

where Lal talked to his advisors, and you really made parliamentary procedure exciting,

Again, this was drawn partly from real life, so I can hardly take the credit. A lot of this came from novels and histories such as Porterhouse Blue and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, although Bush vs. Gore had a good influence too.

Okay, that's enough e-pat-on-the-backing for now. Onto your questions.

1. Why did Lydia access the messages?

I don't remember, to be honest. At this early point in the story, the Zeta-5 algorithm had not been planned as a character and I hadn't gotten the whole "wireless messaging" plot element in place. If it helps, she could have been accessing maps and schematics. I do recall she was on a final mission to bomb the financial sector of the DataTech capital, and that was a gift to Zhou, not at the behest of Zeta-5. Perhaps the Algorithm would not make that information available to her because it was neutral towards Roze.

2. Yang’s Second comments that he could have removed Hu through a diplomatic ferry. Why didn’t he just do that, instead of making it seem like Hu was to be executed at home?

I believe Bing actually was removed via diplomatic ferry. The "punitive extradition" element added further onus on the DataTech not to interfere. Also the punitive extradition was Bing's idea to begin with - he talks of improvising the onboard beatings. The real life Bing also thinks largely in tangents.

3. Did the bodyguard who killed himself in the capture of Hu have a clone back home? Or was he so dedicated to his job that he knew that he was completely expendable?

More likely the latter. After close perusal of the tech tree, I have studied the location of Fusion Power and the Cloning Vats and have determined that that element of this fanfic is likely spurious and/or bollocks. And so is carrier hulls. (Sorry!)

4. Actually, the reason for why hanged men orgasm before death has to do with what happens to the spine and structure of the body, not some evolutionary instinct.

I'll take your word for it. Note it's not just for men either, apparently.

5. What’s the reference to Gaians chosen from the Newcastle-Gateshead Nature Preserve?

I used to go to Durham University, which is dangerously close to Newcastle and also those crazy be-sporran-ed Scotsmen up north. If you've ever read the toilet humor magazine Viz, which is largely set in that area, you'll know that the likelihood of any Newcastle-Gateshead resident making it onboard a UN space craft on the basis of their diplomatic charm is something of an outlyer at best.

6. What does TQVM stand for?

IIRC, "Thank you very much." My knowldge of net slang and l337-speak is woefully unsophisticated, but I was surprised by how many people wrote in saying they couldn't understand it.

7. Are the Caretakers also man-eaters, like the Usurpers?

Yes.

8. What’s Pravidence?

Something to do with Pravin Lal, perhaps? I don't remember.

9. What kind of people in each faction get longevity treatments, besides the leader?

Presumably talents, but I'd imagine it depends on the socio-economic resources. It would be like Arnold Rimmer on board the Red Dwarf - you can only have a few of those around because the energy required to keep them is so high.

10. How does the HK Algorithm work? After all, probe teams need not necessarily be powersuited ninjas, vulnerable to electronic attacks.

The implication is that all of the Hive's top probe agents have a killswitch in case they get captured and interrogated. And of course the Pirates wouldn't stand a chance against ninjas - even if they did discover lasers.

11. You mention later on that if Joe returned to the Hive, the Hunter-Seeker Algorithm would kill him. Considering that he isn't implanted with the device, how is that possible?

The flip, game-mechanic response would be "He's a probe team member". I suppose he could physically return to Hiverian space (after all, an enemy probe team can walk around in an HSA-protected faction's territory) but the moment he tried to interact with anybody or anything that was remotely connected to any network, he'd be found out.

12. What are Lal's Ten Points?

I think these are listed in the episode when Morgan is introduced. They may have become 13 points after several provisions vilifying the Hive were added.

13. I noticed that you had Sheng-ji Yang labelled as former Executive Officer, not Head of Security. However, you mentioned Santiago's role in nearly single-handedly causing Unity to be ripped asunder, as chronicled in Michael Ely's "official" novelization and novella. Which set of "canon" did you use in determining the backstory of the faction leaders for this story?

That's a good question and I'd have to say he presumably held all of those titles some of the time and possibly some of the titles all of the time. I believe some sources also list him as the ship's doctor, further adding to the confusion! XO and HoS seem like reasonable overlap posts, but I think I kept Lal as the chief doctor. Small delicate feminine hands, you know...

14. You have Lal being amused at the Hive's self-proclaimed "war against treachery." Was that a sly reference to modern-day political realities? Or did you write it before 9/11? Also, kudos for characterizing Lal as a machiavellian and a somewhat fanatic peacemaker, eager to forcibly liberate the Hive. How oxymoronic!

9/11 happened halfway through the writing. And you're wrong about the "war against treachery". It's not at all sly.

15. I think you may have misused the word "saturnine."

I'm pretty sure I misspelled "vacuum" too. Shh! Don't tell!

16. Did Christianity disappear along with the Believers? It seems like the diplomats are referencing God an inordinate number of times for the United Nations.

Religion did not disappear. I thought of the Believers as extremists who abdicated mortal responsibility in the trust that a supernatural morality would guide them. Other factions may or may not tolerate religious beliefs (the Hive and University here do not) but they differ from the Believers in the separation of Church and State.

17. Why did you have the Chiron version of the U.N. have an electoral college?

Again, fact stranger than fiction.

18. Also, I don't understand what you meant about Lal packing the electoral college with supporters. Don't the members have to vote according to the majority of the population in the area they represent? And what did you mean when Zakharov said that the Gaians could pack their electoral college with psychic profiling?

The first part - as I understand it, the electoral college system does not actually require the college to vote in accordance with their population. (Although of course the following political fallout will likely be heavy for them.) I could be wrong. The second answer is that Lal and Skye use less-than-upfront means to "encourage" a strong support base. In both cases, they may resort to various kinds of manipulation, political or economic or psychic, to back certain supporters and block opponents from office.

19. How did Hommel die? Why couldn't his flight squadron have picked him up after his crash?

Intentionally kept vague. Sequel/prequel fodder. The flight squadron basically had one shot at this - the next time they came back, the Hive would likely have figured out who they were, perhaps by their radio wavelength.

20. Cryosleep mousepad?

If this refers to what I think it refers to, then it means a nonstatic surface featuring an illustration of a naked Indian woman on the front.

21. When did Tryskel actually fly a Fusion-powered aircraft?

Ooh, this is foggy. I believe she took part in Hommel's raid but I could be wrong. Flying monkeys! Flying monkeys!

22. I'm amused that the ending of your story, while very heartwarming, almost completely neglects to bring any faction closer to any of the standard endings of SMAC. The status quo is pretty much maintained, with no faction getting an upper hand with Cyborg Factory, and none challenging the Hive or the University for Fusion. The personality developments, too, seem to be mainly exterior, changes in identity and status. I'd say Prentice changed the most.

...I think I agree with everything you said. So... erm... Yes! Excellent question dear boy...! Quite. Quite.

23. Why don't the factions blame Santiago and the Spartans for creating the rebellion that basically destroyed Unity?

The story intends to raise exactly that question, and the answer is inevitably realpolitik. Bin Laden was a "freedom fighter" when he was fighting the Soviets. Now the situation is very different, of course.

24. How does Hu know that Prentice was pregnant?

Well, the two men did spend a fair bit of time together in close quarters, and after a few weeks, when Prentice's manly tummy showed the gentle kicking of the life within...

Wait a second...!

Okay, Bing likely got his information that Joely was pregnant through a bug in a bulb, and the bulb was over her marital bed. You can probably chalk the rest up to prurient interest. I think I may have misspelled "Bonsai tree", too. Dammit.

25. Will you ever publish your fanfic somewhere else besides Apolyton? Why not Fanfiction.net?

That would be nice, yes. I might have to use my real name though...

26. Are you working on anything else right now?

I'll be taking the Law School Admission Test in just under 48 hours, yes. But bear in mind I finished Joe just hours before starting my first semester at journalism school, so I can't rule anything out...

I have been thinking about writing a prequel, and I might get round to it too sometime soon just as a creative outlet so I don't go nuts. I love Apolyton and SMAX and I still play the game (sparingly, so addiction doesn't resume).

As always, thanks for reading, and keep on writing y'all!

[Alinestra Covelia]

Just a heads up for my long-suffering friend HuManBing.

He's writing a really really long fanfic set in the Ravenloft and Dragonlance D&D settings. Apparently he got an idea quite similar to my idea with Joe - take a two-dimensional "bad guy" and make him human.

Except that what I did with Chairman Yang, he's doing with the evil warlord Vlad Drakov from Ravenloft. Better yet, hes' writing the whole thing from the first person point of view, which I think is really tough and which I would never do for Joe.

The fan fiction he's working on is here. It says "reader discretion advised" and he means it. There are some really bad scenes of violence that occurs in Vlad Drakov's youth to explain why he got so screwed up as an adult.

And, just as Joe featured HuManBing as a character who plays a middling to large part, my friend HuManBing is apparently writing a character named "Alicov" into his story. ^__^

...

She seems to be a chatterbox though which is entirely unlike me Also I don't have red hair in real life.



Edit: I'm also finally getting around to registering on fanfiction.net and this story should be the first to go up. The user profile name will be "enixine", in honor of the household name we used in college.

[GeoModder]

And? How old is "Joe" now?

[Alinestra Covelia]

The fanfic? It was started in 2000 roundabout the time of the Sydney Olympics, so that makes it more or less eight years old, right?

Unless you meant something else with your post, but I'm looking at it every way I can and I'm not sure what else you could mean.

I've been following HMB's story and he has actually expanded the entire name of the character to Alinestra Covelia, just like my username. She's a drunk, a lecher, a pottymouth, in addition to being a journalist of sorts and a book editor.

HMB has told me she will have a pretty sad fate in the story. This is probably fair play, given that I had Hu Man Bing killed off by decapitation in my own fanfic

[GeoModder]

No, I didn't mean anything else but the story you wrote. I couldn't mean anything else since I don't know a thing about you.
Infact, I thing I never read it. Perhaps Maniac still has it and can sent me it.