Chiron Chronicles Discussion

[Guardian]

About the artillery... I know there's nothing like it in SMACX, but in real life, there is a weapon called FASCAM (Field Artillery SCAttered Mines)...

This kind of stuff could be a real bummer for the Spartans if the PKs started dropping it right in front of their advancing rovers...

The thing is... I'm not so sure if the Peacekeepers would have such a weapon and/or be willing to use it. -But then again, these guys are Spartans...

Oh, and there would be maybe about one and a half artillery units on the western front by now. They would have AA (and possibly FASCAM) capability, but no gas.

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited March 17, 2001).]

[[LordLMP]]

IF any of you checks my pre-war stats for the PK Continental Forces, the Defence Lines have their own Artillery Units, spreaded all along the defence lines. Three western parts, three in the central parts and three along the eastern parts of lines.

In the Game, its quite unrealitic or not very explored in many things in the Game, but this game, the 'sky is the limit' for whatever you creative minds can think up within reason. Artillery can be explored quite considerably and do remember people,. they are MISSILE artillery.

And there is such things as Cluster bombs rounds aswell. Have you two ever read any battletechs books? especially ones with the big battles which involves artillery?

the only unrealistic about artillery in the Game is Laser, Gatling Laser Artilleries and any other beam base artillery. Impact, Missile and so on more realistic.

Bunkers ain't a huge long Wall Cyber, its a series of Fortress, Bunkers. Trenches, whatever in whatever patterns. No matter what, Rovers cannot run through them, their travel time would considerably be cut short to go through them, zig zagging and so on. Spartans would have to secure them the Bunkers aswell and we Rovers would have a hard time secure a Bunkers with Infantry in them, or else they'll get harrass all the way through, against ECM Gatling Squads and SAM Artillery Units. Bunkers does also give protection from Artillery aswell and from Bombers. Sensors gives the Defenders bonuses anyhow and does give Artillery bonuses when targeting. Captured Sensors doesn't give attackers any bonuses, except maybe if your attacking with Artillery. Rovers, even the Elite Spartan ones, can still get SOME damage from artillery. Mass artillery bombarbment in any specific area would do some damage, artillery doesn't really need a specific lock on a specific Rover to work properly.

Like Blake says CC is only base on SMAC/X, we use realism, common sence and also use knowledge of real life military combat on here in the Real World aswell in CC.

I have great military knowledge and know what they can do or not. And I have great sci-fi knowsledge aswell from many books like the Battletech series for example, where a lot of warfare is described Artillery is Important in any combined arms warfare.

SPARTANS are not invincible or unbeatable.

-LordLMP

[[LordLMP]]

I said Expedition Teams, not Military Scouts Anyway, where do you think Antimind is hiding on Chiron?

or where would the Aliens be landing, if ever?

Don't need the aliens to be aloud to research soporific and theres enough alien artifacts on Chiron to get the tech from too you know

And there is Data Angels coming.

-LordLMP
[This message has been edited by [LordLMP] (edited March 17, 2001).]

[Cyber]

Okay, if they´re series of fortresses, bunkers or trenches, that would mean that the defense line would have holes somewhere, some even hundreds of kilometers wide.The thing is, if you don´t want to build a chinese wall, and have 100 gatling infantries defend it, you´ll have to accept that you can´t possibly stop defend the whole area.
And once again, what if the bunkers are blown to pieces, then it shouldn´t be a problem to go through them. Believe me, even the toughest material can´t stand a missile bombardment coming from fourteen units, plus two artilleries .

About the artillery, if you guys start "inventing" or using Fascams or clusters, i shouldn´t leave my weapons R&D much behind . How about Nerve gas to counter Sopo, or something more radical like heavy corrosion artillery, burning troop armor or even whole bunkers to ashes .
OR maybe, nuke shooting artillery KABOOM!
LordLMP you should know, with your extensive knowledge about warfare, that there are already, in the real world, nuclear bomb shells for conventional artillery. They´re not so powerful(somewhere about 15kt) but they can be used against troops and single, smaller targets quite well. And shooting a multitude of them on some area can do quite devastating damage.

Or maybe we should just stick in the old ones, given by the game... You see, the basis of our game is coming from Smax, and that means putting your own inventions can make all of this quite more complex or even unfair.
Besides, since when have you started relying on new wartoys to beat the Spartans , they don´t have better weapons than you. They´re just more experienced when talking about combat and warfare altogether, thats all.Thats their good side.

Next subject.Is there problem for the Spartans to start colonising the north island?Antimind? They can be friends with it.Aliens?Let them come, we´ll be catching them with a tramboline What do you mean with, the Data Angels are coming?


BTW, why the hell everybody is either shouting,kill the Spartans!or constantly reminding me they´re not invincible or unbeatable I´m just trying to clear up things, not bragging that the Spartans are the kings of the world

[Cyber]

LordLMP, look at CC Summaries for more information about the Hive population in Janissary rock, not the admin. The thing with drone riots is that there can be riots in Spartan cities, but there will be also anti-rioters, people with too much patriotism or something supported by the government. Just like in Jugoslavia, or actually in every nest of political instability. The voluntary citizen units represent this, and actually they have non-lethal methods(imagine two groups of drunken English football fans, with baseball bats) but I have honestly forgotten to write about it in the Admin. Its logical for them to have non-lethal methods, as they are somewhat educated and supplied by the government. What a better police force than citizens themselves
And the probe team can have a million credits, but still won´t even open a door for them. Things don´t work in Sparta with credits. The energy credits are valued only when there is some practical use with them, like hurrying the local industry.

[Natan]

Okay, I'm still waiting for a map of hive territory. I can't really start making up my army or bases without it.

[Blake]

quote: And the probe team can have a million credits, but still won´t even open a door for them. Things don´t work in Sparta with credits.

Mainly because the combination of Police State and (Planned? Frontier?) means the economy is virtually paralysed anyway, so everyone in Spartan territory is so poor they have probably never seen a credit

[Guardian]

Ummm... did you say "three bunkers" as in "three map squares"??

Well, that would require a hole in the defense line that would be hundreds of kilometers wide... Sounds like a "mission damned near impossible" even for the Spartans, but ah well... I'm not gonna start another nit-picking discussion here...

I agree with LordLMP that we should use common sense, realism and imagination as well as SMAC/X-stuff in this game. However, I also agree with Cyber that there needs to be certain limitations - or else we might eventually end up spending so much time and energy making up and discussing new rules that there won't be any time left to play!

Anyway... what a mess we've got with the Hive!!!
Could get quite interesting actually. But... there was the thing about Yang deciding to side with the Spartans, then changing his mind and then not changing his mind after all... Does that mean I should consider his message to the Council as never having been received in the first place?

Oh, and just for the record... I'm not trying to make you turn around yourself again now, but nobody would have expected the Hive to go democratic/green!!! True, you couldn't have joined the Chiron Alliance, but for the time being, the Peacekeepers are willing to let most other matters rest and join forces with just about anybody who's out to kick Spartan butt! As for atrocities... It really doesn't matter who's doing what to whom and why, atrocities are still atrocities!!! So... the Peacekeepers will not condone atrocities against the Spartans. However... these are desperate times and the Peacekeeping Forces are not likely to take any action against any potential ally in this conflict... So... if somebody started gassing or nuking Spartans, the PKs would be less than pleased, and they would say so... -but for now, they wouldn't really do anything about it, except to say "please don't do that again"...

Anyway, enough of that. It could have been kind of interesting to see how the Hive/PK alliance would have worked and how long it would last. After all, the PKs do tend to be kind of naive, and so Yang just might have gotten away with a murder or two if he did a good job keeping up his outward appearances... Ah well! We have other elements in this game that can get quite interesting also! And besides, we just might still play out some of this stuff on Hive/PK relations at a later stage. We'll see...


[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited March 21, 2001).]

[Cyber]

Blake, actually the economy isn´t paralyzed, depends what kind of police state.Democracy isn´t the only efficient form for a economy, you know

Okay, seems that you people haven´t understood what I meant(My fault )

Sparta doesn´t work with credits, but with power. The higher your are in the Spartan hierarchy, the more power you have, and with more power you can get more privileges, commodity and luxuries.Anyways, the Spartans don´t care much about luxuries and that kind. Hey, they are Spartans

If you want to rise up the hierarchy pyramid, you have to show your talents. You can show your talents by doing different kinds of tests, supervised by a multitude expert judges.
Or you you can show your talents on the field, like faring well in battles, being a good scientist etc. Plainly, by showing your talents in a certain field.
This way, nobody can for example, bribe the judges supervising the tests. What are they going to do with credits, as they know what they can get with their power status, so credits don´t help a sh*t in that.

However, every Spartan has certain rights and duties, so even the lowliest drone is given food, a place to live and a ton of other stuff needed for a healthy and productive life.
But if that drone starts getting slacky and doesn´t follow his/her duties, that means trouble for him/her eg. less privileges, "re-education" or even execution.

Anyways, the thing is that a Spartan can, if wants so, to live ones life as a simple drone, or follow the carrot and start climbing up the ladders, if he/she has enough talents for this.
The Spartan Federation gives the possibility for anyone to make ones own live better.
Also, large-scale propaganda and undirect brainwash is widely used


That should clear things enough. I suggest everybody should do a description about their factions society and how it works in the CC Summaries, so no misunderstandings would happen.

[Guardian]

Hey Christantine... just some friendly advice about... well, realism!

I know Cyber himself didn't object, but there were a couple of things in your most recent post that struck me as kind of odd...

First of all, you said that the Spartans had not-so-cool personal weapons because of their inability to mass produce stuff... well, true enough, the Spartans have a not-so-cool industry, but weapons are their top priority. Their garrison/militia units in the not-so-important bases might still be running around with shredder pistols, but the armies being sent to the front would get the best weapons the Spartan Federation could lay hands on, and if you look at the faction profile back in SMAC, the Spartan -1 industry rating is explained with the statement that "extravagant weapons are costly"... In other words, they do have extravagant weapons! It just takes a while for them to make them and there will be other things that they might not get at all while they're busy building up their military...

Also, with all their military expertise, I doubt the Spartans would make the mistake of leaving their rovers neatly lined up in a "parking lot" in the middle of a war zone! After all, that's the most vulnerable you can possibly make them...

Just my two cents...

[Guardian]

Peacekeeper probe team eliminates double post caused by Spartan virus...

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited March 19, 2001).]

[Guardian]

Peacekeeper probe team eliminates triple post!
Did the Data Angels snoop in our files too??

[This message has been edited by Guardian (edited March 19, 2001).]

[Christantine The Great]

Personal weapons: The Spartans are also overconfident. Why would they waste minerals on building small personal weapons if they were going to fight aganst Peacekeepers? Also think of how much time it took for them to build up such a large rover force with their limitations. I think because of their overconfidence they wouldn't make small personal weapons.

The rovers: Again overconfidence. Rememeber I said the rovers belonged to the commanders. Would the commanders be the first ones into battle? No! They would have their regulars start out the battle as they pulled out in their rovers. Plus would they expect a rover behind their own lines to do what it did? I don't think so.

[Cyber]

I swear I had written some comments about the attack of the single locust, but seems it got lost somewhere in the way getting posted

Spartan might be overconfident, but they are not stupid. First of all, as Guardian pointed out, they aren´t going to make a parking slot of rovers, they aren´t even going to go out of the rovers!
Second, a rover isn´t going to go critical when colliding with another rover, otherwise the whole the whole battle of Falling Walls would have been a one big nukefest
Third, but not so important as even Gatling rifles couldn´t have done anything to the rover, but all Spartan soldiers are equipped with Gatling rifles.Once again, as guardian pointed out, extravagant weapons cost...

Chris, don´t get this wrong, otherwise it was a good story. I liked the Kansas and Unity pod stuff
Just put a little realism into it, and if some facts are unclear to you, just ask me.
And your doing a good job with Antimind, even the whole idea is interesting.

[Natan]

I think the idea of putting a nuclear reactor on anything that moves is a little nutty, especially when synthetic fossil fuels are available. Maybe we should interpert the idea ... more allegorically, when refering to land units? I mean, how can an infantry unit be fission powered? And wouldn't a nuclear car go very very fast?


edit: I still have no map!!
[This message has been edited by Natan (edited March 19, 2001).]