Tim the beginner's modding thread

[timsup2nothin]

Thanks Darsnan,

That would surely have been the easier way to go. I have an 'alphax original' and a 'helpx original' so far. I'm good about doing a SAVE AS 'whatever original' first thing before I make any changes, then immediately doing another SAVE AS to change the title back, but a complete folder duplicate would have all the originals in a far more convenient place. Since I've only changed a couple files so far I'll dupe the whole folder, delete my modified files in the duplicate, and rename the originals.

Thanks Petek,

I checked it both ways also. I guess I was never paying close attention before. On extended menus the road and tube building show up in a sea square, with or without the sonar buoy.

[timsup2nothin]

On to the possibility of something going irrevocably wrong.

The weapon and armor rebalancing seems to have worked out okay. The progenitor factions are still tough as really close neighbors, but not the gamebreakers they were, and the choice between 2-res and plasma steel is interesting throughout the early warfare stages. I still find that Fossil Fuels tends to show up ahead of Superconductor, so I changed gatling lasers to 6 and missile launchers to 5. Weapons and armor much beyond that I have little experience with, since in general I've effectively ended games fairly soon after the advent of air power; a familiar refrain.

So I started thinking about our friend, turn advantage. I'm smarter than the AI, so I work the turn advantage balance, but what REALLY tips the balance hard? Projects. If my formers are twice as fast as their formers I build up a big advantage. If I have a talent, two normals, and a drone worker while they have two normals and a doctor and no extra nuts I build up a big advantage. Once I'm building a big advantage I compound it until the AI is hopelessly behind, especially since they are frequently turning a one turn short of built project into some massive squandering of minerals when I beat them to it. Projects....

So I pushed back all the projects. Almost all the projects, anyway. Most of them two levels up the tech tree. Theoretically, the AI will no longer be tying up its most productive base on a doomed attempt to build a project before it has built up effective infrastructure. It also will make me build a lot of stuff I usually don't waste resources building (holo theaters? just manage those drones doc, the Virtual World is on the way).

This was far more ambitious than the previous changes I made, so we will see how it goes.

[vyeh]

You might be interested in looking at

http://www.apolyton.net/smac/

Click on the Files tab; then Modpack; then look at the Advanced Hydromechanics tech patch.

This was the part of ShiNing1's Alpha Centauri (SNAC) mod pack that added elements to sea warfare and terraforming. After you download it, look at the readme.txt file. It actually has instructions for cutting and pasting the alpha.txt file "for those who wish to do so by hand so as not to disrupt any existing custom parameters."

[timsup2nothin]

It might be a while before there is anything more to say here...the current play test has turned into an epic! I think that means the test is positive.

The anti-aircraft mod is working. There seems to be an abundant supply of anti-aircraft missile rovers knocking down planes on all sides.

No report yet on the terraform mod, since I haven't taken over any territory to check for forestation.

The weapon and armor rebalancing put my Spartans in a seemingly endless clash with Yang on a four square wide front across a neck connecting our territories. I got impact weapons just in time to pound back his synthmetal and laser goons, but with them lowered to 3 his development of plasma steel turned the tide back before I could take a base. Another couple decades in the meatgrinder and I developed R-lasers and built the Command Nexus. I managed to take a base, barely, and he finally accepted a truce. I had to maintain a huge garrison in the conquered base to keep the peace, which gives me a new sympathy for the AI factions crippled by supporting too many obsolete units.

The push back of projects mod has worked wonders on the game. At this point the PKs have five, the Gaians have five, I managed two for the Spartans, and Yang has one. Project construction is pretty directly tied to research; there have been very few 'races'. In a couple of early tests that didn't go so well I saw that also, and saw that it was putting extra weight on the SMAX factions two tech start, so I cut them all back to one tech and reduced the Drones +2 industry to +1. That may have overcompensated, though the Cyborgs have been leading in tech on and off in this game, and the Cult is definitely the largest 'armed menace'. The Drones are doing poorly, but that may just be a matter of having been severely cramped in their starting location.

So the game is entering territory I have very seldom seen, and that not for a long time. It is also in the turf of my other extensive modification. After pushing almost all the projects back, I pushed almost all the chassis and special ability availabilities forward. I'm building tanks! Not the familiar 'mop up in the game that is really over' tanks, actual (hopefully) making a difference tanks, now available at Fusion Power.

If this test turns out to be typical, I may never play anything else.

[Darsnan]

Sounds very interesting! You should post some pics and/ or saves so anyone else who's interested can view.


D

[vyeh]

How about posting the modified files?

[timsup2nothin]

Well, my tanks weren't 'mop up tanks'...they also didn't carry the day. I have been humbled by the AI, I'm embarrassed to say. I was pushing everything to stay ahead of the PK on techs, my troops got obsolete, and my Gaian allies suddenly decided that they had enough missiles, copters, and locusts to get back on top of things...starting with me. I actually don't have much experience with being on the wrong end of the more advanced units, and it showed.

The second test is also going well from the standpoint of being a competitive game, but again I think I'm going to get beaten down in the end. Zak vs the aliens is not looking like a pretty picture.

Darsnan, how do I post pictures and/or saves? Doesn't the save require the modified files to run?

Vyeh, a similar question...where and how would I post the files? I'm willing...though there are some things I'd like to clean up, and they really aren't well tested yet. I wouldn't be surprised if someone came back and said 'hey, the [whatever faction] gets a huge advantage here'. A couple random sets of seven hardly proves anything, since there are at least a couple factions I haven't even seen yet.

Direct appeal for help: I switched the values and costs for missile and gatling in the weapons section, and the effects were just as expected, but the images didn't follow...ie the 'missile infantry' with an attack rating of 5 has the gatling laser picture and vice versa. Thinking that the images might be tied to the position in the list I swapped the entire lines in the file, but no fix. I figure there is some sort of icon file somewhere, but have no idea where. Of course, one could say that the boxy looking thing is only a 'missile launcher', and the pointy blue thing is only a 'gatling laser' because I've been trained that way, but I'd like to know how to change them.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
Darsnan, how do I post pictures and/or saves? Doesn't the save require the modified files to run?

Vyeh, a similar question...where and how would I post the files? I'm willing...though there are some things I'd like to clean up, and they really aren't well tested yet. I wouldn't be surprised if someone came back and said 'hey, the [whatever faction] gets a huge advantage here'. A couple random sets of seven hardly proves anything, since there are at least a couple factions I haven't even seen yet.

To post a picture, you would use the "Post Reply" button in the in the middle just below the last message (instead of the "Post Quick Reply" box that you have been using). You would use "Choose File". You can attach a JPG file (like I've done).

For a save, you take the save of your game, zip it and attach the zipped file.

A saved game includes certain modifications to the alphax.txt file. Darsnan would be able to tell you what is included and what isn't.

For a bunch of files, you would place them in a folder, zip the whole folder and attach the zipped file.

It can be helpful to post your work in progress. It makes it easier for other people to see what you've done and offer constructive feedback.

[timsup2nothin]

Okay, I'll be porting the files over sometime today. The machine I play games on is not connected to the internet, so I need to break out the thumb drive. I'll get everything zipped up and see if I can upload it to the files area as a version 1.0 despite its problems. If anyone can solve these problems please let me know how.

1) Created units override the need to prototype. For example, my cruiser based sea probe team comes available as soon as cruiser hulls are available. I find that at that point I can design and build a cruiser based unit of any kind without having to build a prototype, as long as the armor/weapons package has already been prototyped.

2) Still haven't figured out how to change the graphics for the weapons. If I make missiles weapon grade 5 and gatling weapons grade 6 the images do not follow with the weapons.

Other than those details I'm pretty happy with the package, though I have yet to win a game on transcend. The AI seems very adept at using missiles and drop troops when they arrive at that stage even or ahead in development.

[timsup2nothin]

Tim the Beginner's Mod

That is all my modified files. Anyone who is willing to playtest it please leave any comments here. I've moved from 'I haven't been able to win' to 'I see how I could have won'...but I still haven't yet.

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
That is all my modified files. Anyone who is willing to playtest it please leave any comments here. I've moved from 'I haven't been able to win' to 'I see how I could have won'...but I still haven't yet.

Hi timsup2nothin,

have just started reviewing your alphax.txt file. I really like the idea of pulling forward the later chassis such as hovertanks and gravships - I've been doing something similar with gravships by placing them at Monopole Magnets: this, along with moving the CBA to MM then gives the human players a choice: do they beeline for MMI (which gives them the CF and choppers) or do they beeline for MM (which now gives the CBA and gravships)?

Quick questions: what sized maps do you play on? Reason I'm asking is that I've done several other things to impede the "chop and drop" approach, namely increasing the base defense to 40% and lessening a/c, chopper and gravship movement by -2 per chassis. This is of course even more beneficial on smaller maps, but is of less importance on larger maps.

I'll probably mod in your idea of hovertanks at Fusion this evening and see how it plays with the scenario I'm working on now: all in all I do think it will fit in nicely, tho. Once I get some data I'll give some feedback.


D

[timsup2nothin]

Thanks. I have enjoyed getting to play with and against tanks while they still make a difference.

I play mostly on the two biggest map settings.

I think the biggest effect I've gotten was pushing back the projects. I've been playing unmodded SMAC lately, and had forgotten how huge a hit the AI takes when you stick them with a project incompletion.

[Darsnan]

Finally got a game to go to the point where the game was still undecided at Fusion. The following is the first AI hovertank I encountered:

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
Thanks. I have enjoyed getting to play with and against tanks while they still make a difference.

What are the types of tanks the AI designs in your games? The most common design I've run up against this evening is an 8/1/3/2 tank: while good offensively, its pretty easy to kill. I tried programming in a Probe Bug (hovertank probe with psi armor) but the AI ignored building it. For some reason I'm thinking its related to the level 2 reactor available at Fusion (i.e. all designed units in the alphax.txt file have a level 1 reactor).

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
I play mostly on the two biggest map settings.

Thought so. Having hovertanks available at Fusion on small/ medium maps is overkill, however this ventures into a seperate tangent I'm playing around with right now involving sculpted alphax.txt files for divergent environments (tiny maps versus huge maps, all land versus all sea, etc). Anyways, generally speaking I do believe you are on to something here with bringing hovertanks down to Fusion. I'm going to play around with it some more and see what works as far as units at this stage. As I asked above if you can provide some detail as to what you are encountering in regards to hovertank units the AI builds, then this would probably be very beneficial, as currently I had to play thru several failed attempts at getting a random game to be still viable at Fusion in order to assess how the AIs handled hovertanks in this environment.

Originally posted by timsup2nothin
I think the biggest effect I've gotten was pushing back the projects. I've been playing unmodded SMAC lately, and had forgotten how huge a hit the AI takes when you stick them with a project incompletion.

Really!?! I've generally found that once a human player reaches crawlers, its pretty much over in regards to SPs, as humans can easily rush-build desired SPs and steal them from AIs.
A thought I've had (but have not experimented significantly with yet) is to actually bring down tech-wise and cheapen some of the early SPs. Example: changing the Virtual World to Social Science and cheapening it to a level 1 SP. This then makes the human player(s) consider diverging from the typical beeline to Industrial Automation (and crawlers) in order to garner this important SP. By cheapeneing it to a level 1 SP it then means the AIs are much more competitive in acquiring this SP.

[timsup2nothin]

I might be getting a different effect on the SP thing because I don't use directed research. The AIs get some of the desirable later projects before I even get the tech.

That aside though, there's a whole different dynamic to projects and rushing. There are so many facilities I never build in an unmodded game. It's just more efficient to have the productive bases build crawlers instead and pop the project that gives the facility in not only those bases but all the others as well.

By pushing the projects back I find that I need those facilities before I have the tech for the project, and sometimes I just can't wait. Since I feel more need to build facilities I have less opportunity to stack up crawlers. More of the rush building of projects that I've been doing has come from scrapping facilities that the project will replace than from crawlers.


On tanks...if you get to that stage with the Hive or the Believers being effective powers I think you will be more likely to see defensive tanks. I had no luck getting the AIs to build designed tanks either.