[C4:AC] Seabases!

[Blake]

I feel that Seabases are a bad gameplay element in SMAC, they are an interesting novelty but have many problems, including:

Realism. The technology requirements to build and sustain a seabase would be somewhat higher than "Doctrine: Flexibility" in SMAC. At a minimum probably Supertensile Solids, or Orbital Spaceflight at a minimum. A seabase is such a massive project compared with building a cluster of buildings on chiron-firma.

Balance. Oceans provide land where bases cannot be founded. They provide dead zones which don't contain stuff to fight over. They create focal points for action in the land masses. Sea bases ruin this, they make the entire map the same, space to build bases.

What do you think? This is a poll but please also state your case for or against seabases.

[ForesterSOF]

I am for them with more restrictions.

They are usefull both politially and economically.

The problem is on Earth you really dont sea them yet.

What we do see are the ofshore oil drilling stuff and labs.

In time the idea will come to reality so for these reasons I would make it harder to get sea bases started, start them later, and increase the maintanance cost for them.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by ForesterSOF
In time the idea will come to reality so for these reasons I would make it harder to get sea bases started, start them later, and increase the maintanance cost for them.

Originally posted by joncha
I agree.

[Maniac]

Re: [C4:AC] Seabases!

Originally posted by Blake
Realism. The technology requirements to build and sustain a seabase would be somewhat higher than "Doctrine: Flexibility" in SMAC. At a minimum probably Supertensile Solids, or Orbital Spaceflight at a minimum. A seabase is such a massive project compared with building a cluster of buildings on chiron-firma.

So just change the tech tree to reflect that. No need to remove seabases at all. I'm strongly in favour of them. The aquatic factions are the most fun to play. They also make navies more important which are otherwise neglected.

[GeoModder]

I would prefer a gradual need for more advanced techs the deeper you found your seabases. For instance, bases founded in coastal shelfs could have enough with for instance Silksteel Alloys, and ocean-based bases could do with Nano-Metallurgy. I fear if Supertensile Solids is a prerequisite for underwater bases, it would barely be the trouble of founding them by the time the tech was discovered. The tech tree is largery researched by then and the typical game is in it last stages.

The only drawback of this is that at first glance seabased factions are an impossibility.
Perhaps a disctinction should be made between literally "floating cities" and underwater bases. The former can't grow big due to lack of space, the latter can only be constructed when the necessary technology is commonplace.

[N35t0r]

Thats sounds like a good idea...

maybe separate hab buildings for land/water bases?

[TimeTraveler]

If an aquatic faction like the Nautilus Pirates is going to be in the game, building sea bases of some sort will need to be possible from that early start of Doctrine: Flexibility, or whatever tier-2 tech they'll have will be ultimately called. Of course, at the start, that would have to have restrictions like a floating hab-limited city on the ocean shelf. Of course, the Pirates will have to be given various goodies tied to their habitat of choice and early game dilemma. I'd like to see the Pirates be even with the other factions throughout the game without having to largely move back on land.

[Blake]

It looks like I'm a lone voice against seabases . So be it!

Fortunately we have total control over what is possible.

The Pirates could have a UU sea colony pod which comes earlier. I'd probably force the pirates to start out on land (maybe guarantee them coast) since the tech level of the Unity is just unreasonably low for seabases....

Eh. Just as well I guess. I like the Pirates Ideology.

[N35t0r]

Originally posted by Blake I'd probably force the pirates to start out on land (maybe guarantee them coast) since the tech level of the Unity is just unreasonably low for seabases....

I find it hard that something which was able to survive landing in a planet couldn't be jury-rigged to float

Initially limiting them to coast sites and requiring stricter hab limits for sea bases would make it realistic enough IMHO.

[GeoModder]

Well, let the first "sea"bases only be small floating stuff, something a bit more modern then in the movie Waterworld.
Infact a aquatic faction almost has to start on land, where else do they get the materials to make their rigs and platforms?

[N35t0r]

If we use health to represent hab limits and such, we could have several metals improving hab requirements, which would force the pirates to acquire a source of metals to allow their bases to expand...

[GeoModder]

The problem with playing a scif/futuristic game is that the materials of the day not only need the ores, they are even more in need of alloys.

[Kinjiru]

I do like sea bases, but agree that they need to be a bit more restricted. Tying the placement (coastal, sea, ocean) to varying tech levels is a good one.

I don't think that this would eliminate the possibility of sea-based factions either. Just given them an ability that lets them get +1 food or +1 mineral from improved ocean squares.

[Rubin]

Originally posted by Kinjiru
I don't think that this would eliminate the possibility of sea-based factions either. Just given them an ability that lets them get +1 food or +1 mineral from improved ocean squares.

Perhaps this could be done by having a unique building for such factions. Additionally, the unique building could replace a Pressure Dome facility that can only be built in naval bases.

I too like sea bases. They offer a sense of limitless expansion--freedom. Perhaps the initial use of sea bases could be some sort of military or exploration outpost with limited facility options. Later technological advances may lift these restrictions.

[GeoModder]

Originally posted by Rubin
Perhaps the initial use of sea bases could be some sort of military or exploration outpost with limited facility options. Later technological advances may lift these restrictions.

naval yard, network node, sonar station... even a punishment sphere as to mimick a penal colony. Perhaps even a typical seabase facility to put +1 minerals. But no hab complexes, energy banks, and more before the restrictions are lifted.