Planetmind faction

[Leon Trotsky]

*** DISCLAIMER ***

Before you all start throwing empty datapods at me, let me say that this is not supposed to be a balanced faction. This is supposed to be overpowered, and should only be played by the AI. Then again, in "Napoleon in Europe" there is a semi-realistic scenario in which France is overpowered, and the other players are supposed to join agains her. So it might even work in multiplayer.

*** ON TO MY LITTLE IDEA ***

Looking among the factions, one can find a couple of environmental sensitive groups. We have the concerned ecologists, and the zealous fundamentalists. Cha Dawn even styles himself "The Voice". However, I suggest a true Human-Fungus hyrid. A handful of colonists that gave up to their individuality and became hosts to the mindworm. Their "leader" would be just a body Planet choose to commune more easily with the offworlders; there is no such thing as a "Worm King". Now Planet is to be feared, and not just a resource to be gathered. It would replace the underused Alien factions.

I'm not sure whehter to change the prerequisite to contact this faction to "Centarui Meditation", or just make communication outright impossible. A human Pact mate to planet recieving commerce income form trading with a fungal patch sounds odd...

They should have a pre-designed former with custom graphics which would be some sort of spore spreader, planting fungus across its path. They might also have a pre-designed fungal missile, the equivalent to fungal pops.

Part of their faction.txt would be like this:

Interest, -10
TECHCOST, 1000
FUNGNUTRIENT, 2
FUNGMINERALS, 2
FUNGENERGY, 2
MINDCONTROL, 1
ALIEN, 1
FREEABIL, 25 ; Dissociative Wave
PROBECOST, 1000
+++SUPPORT
+++POLICE
+++++PLANET
-----INDUSTRY

I know I've got to pick only eight of them, any ideas?

Does anyone know if research rates lower than minus five would delay research indefinetely?

I also have a problem since Ecological Engineering is both the technology that allows players both to plant fungus and build advanced terraforming. With any luck, enough bonus from the fungus would make the AI favor it instead of, say, condensers and boreholes.

Tell me, isn't this way too cheesy? Or would you like to play a game with such a faction in it?

[Chaos Theory]

*digs out list of faction traits*

Limited options:

Specified free tech (TECH, Ecology)
FACILITY
FREEFAC (SMAX)
UNIT
SOCIAL
ROBUST
IMMUNITY
IMPUNITY
PENALTY
FUNGNUTRIENT/FUNGMINERALS/FUNGENERGY
VOTES
REVOLT (SMAX)
NODRONE (SMAX)
FREEABIL (SMAX)
PROBECOST (SMAX)
OFFENSE (SMAX)
DEFENSE (SMAX)


Unlimited options:

MORALE
PSI
RESEARCH
TALENT
DRONE
ENERGY
INTEREST
COMMERCE
POPULATION
HURRY
TECHCOST
SHARETECH
TECHSHARE (SMAX)
Unspecified free tech (TECH, 1)
TERRAFORM
MINDCONTROL
FREEPROTO
ALIEN (SMAX)
AQUATIC (SMAX)
COMMFREQ
FANATIC
WORMPOLICE (SMAX)
TECHSTEAL (SMAX)


Your list includes the following unlimited options:
INTEREST, TECHCOST, MINDCONTROL, ALIEN
and the following limited-to-8 options:
FUNGNUTRIENT, FUNGMINERALS, FUNGENERGY, FREEABIL, PROBECOST, SOCIAL x4 (support, industry, police, planet)

That means you only need to drop one of the limited-to-8 options. Also keep in mind, however, that industry is lower-bounded to -3, and rolls over at -7 (to +5).

The faction, as it stands, is horribly underpowered. With TECHCOST, 1000, it'll never get off the ground. FREEABIL only works once you get the associated tech, and furthermore will not affect pre-designed units (such as mind worms). Between the high cost of native life (especially with rock-bottom industry) and the effective inability to use conventional weaponry, any faction could just empath rover its way to victory.

[Leon Trotsky]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
*digs out list of faction traits*

Thanks! I vaguely remembered something about certain traits being limited and others not, but I didn't know the specifics.

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
The faction, as it stands, is horribly underpowered.

Originally I thought of giving this faction more benefits, such as a good psi combat bonus. I was trying to be conservative so that people woudln't be scared, so I dropped some of those. I might have been too cautious - the little paragraph in the first message may have been enough.

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
With TECHCOST, 1000, it'll never get off the ground.

This is something I missed in the original message. This faction is not supposed to do any research. I intended to create a complete different playing experience (game-magazine-buzzword alarm off!), instead of building up knowledge and wealth they would be bent on covering Planet with fungus. Ideally, the Voice would never open the unit design workshop; every unit it could use would be available from start.

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
FREEABIL only works once you get the associated tech, and furthermore will not affect pre-designed units (such as mind worms).

Ouch, and big ouch. Would a special, alpha.txt defined mindworm be way over the top?

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Between the high cost of native life (especially with rock-bottom industry) and the effective inability to use conventional weaponry, any faction could just empath rover its way to victory.

I thought this faction would build nothing except colony pods and formers. As for the empath ability, I hoped the dissociative wave would cover it.

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Would a special, alpha.txt defined mindworm be way over the top?

Well, either you would replace the basic mind worm, in which case anyone could capture and build wave mind worms, or you wouldn't, in which case this faction (like others) could never capture them. I'm not sure how easy it is to make a new unit act like native life.

I thought this faction would build nothing except colony pods and formers. As for the empath ability, I hoped the dissociative wave would cover it.

How does it win, then? Native life alone doesn't cut it simply because scout patrols are so cheap and effective against them. It would take a lot of bonuses to deal with just how many scout patrols can be fielded against a mineral-equivalent mind worm army. Artillery also does a number on it.

[Leon Trotsky]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
Would a special, alpha.txt defined mindworm be way over the top?

Well, either you would replace the basic mind worm, in which case anyone could capture and build wave mind worms, or you wouldn't, in which case this faction (like others) could never capture them. I'm not sure how easy it is to make a new unit act like native life.

I was thinking of a third option - a custom mindworm lookalike which prerequisite would be a bogus tech. A house rule would be not to build those. If memory serves, this is the way special units were made in Civ2.

Originally posted by Chaos Theory

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky
I thought this faction would build nothing except colony pods and formers. As for the empath ability, I hoped the dissociative wave would cover it.

How does it win, then? Native life alone doesn't cut it simply because scout patrols are so cheap and effective against them. It would take a lot of bonuses to deal with just how many scout patrols can be fielded against a mineral-equivalent mind worm army. Artillery also does a number on it.

The idea of making this faction human player friendly is only recent - it was born an AI faction, to add a new flavour to the game, and make Planet somewhat scarier. Still, it could be able to pull out a conquest victory. Since it doesn't have to bother teching up, and thanks to its elementary terraforming philosophy (fungus and forget!) it can concentrate on expanding and building scout patrols to capture mindworms. Its Planet rating yields a nice Psi combat bonus, furtherly enhanced by actually giving the faction a Psi combat bonus.

Bear in mind that I do not have a clear idea of how this faction would be; I started this thread not as a "faction review" but as a brainstorm proposal. That is, any suggestions are more than welcome.

[Leon Trotsky]

Is it possible to duplicate secret projects? I'd like to make a clone of the Ascent to Transcendence called "the flowering", reserved for this faction.

[Chaos Theory]

AFAIK, secret projects' effects are hardcoded. You could change one of the empty secret projects to be "The Flowering" and give it an unusual prereq and high AI values, and then declare the game over if it gets built.

[Xian]

Or,mor simply you could allow the AI to build the Ascent to Transcendence as well, renaming it to the Flowering and making it the same for everyone.

[Leon Trotsky]

I could, but this faction is supposed to have little or no research. Thanks again, Chaos - I didn't remember having spare projects. I could use those.

[dmm1285]

I made a similar faction a few years ago

I found that that you have to be real careful about messing with the fungus values, or the faction can get unbalanced very quickly. Remember, the faction does not have to plant fungus to take adcvantage of it, it shouldn't be stronger than condesnors/borholes, those take a lot of turns to terraform. I think I found that +1 NUT and +! MIN was fair (giving fuugs 2,1,0 with Centauri Ecology). Also, I used the modifer that doubled negatives, so you had to choose between more engery and no funugs benefit, or fungus and no engery. Some other ideas you may want to consdier:

FREE Brood pit to lower cost of native life

Giving the faction -95% Alien Offense/Defense, then raising the PSI bonus really high. What thisd does is make using conventional weapons impractical, but native life stronger

If you search for my name in this forum, you can probabbly find the orignal thread.

[Leon Trotsky]

Re: I made a similar faction a few years ago

Thanks! I know I wasn't being original at all...

Originally posted by dmm1285
I found that that you have to be real careful about messing with the fungus values, or the faction can get unbalanced very quickly. Remember, the faction does not have to plant fungus to take adcvantage of it, it shouldn't be stronger than condesnors/borholes, those take a lot of turns to terraform.

Now I am confused... Master Chaos says this faction is cannon fodder, now you tell me you had problems balancing fungus resources... my head a splode!

Originally posted by dmm1285
I think I found that +1 NUT and +! MIN was fair (giving fuugs 2,1,0 with Centauri Ecology). Also, I used the modifer that doubled negatives, so you had to choose between more engery and no funugs benefit, or fungus and no engery.

Interesting. I think that I'll use no bonus energy. The less energy this faction has, the better. I don't want it subverting bases, cornering the global market, or *gulp* making research breakthroughs.

Originally posted by dmm1285
Some other ideas you may want to consdier:

FREE Brood pit to lower cost of native life

Hey, that's a good one. Not only does it lower native lifeforms costs, but it also frees me one social engineering slot.

Originally posted by dmm1285
Giving the faction -95% Alien Offense/Defense, then raising the PSI bonus really high. What thisd does is make using conventional weapons impractical, but native life stronger

Do Alien Offense/Defense only affect conventional combat? Or by "really high" you meant really, really high in order to compensate?

Originally posted by dmm1285
If you search for my name in this forum, you can probabbly find the orignal thread.

Let's get scouring...

[Darrell01]

You might give the faction -a lot of efficiency and make like police state. That would take care of most of the energy outside of the capitol.

[Leon Trotsky]

I have been playing with that idea myself. The main drawback would be that a low efficiency rating creates additional bureucracy drones. The Police bonus is then a necessity, as using psych allocation to deal with such drones would be suicidal - not only does this faction starve for energy, but super drones are far more expensive to revert than regular ones.

[Darrell01]

Well, give them free hologram theatres and/or free ability Non-Lethal Meathods as well as free brood pits. The brood pit, on top of making mind worms cheaper, is +2 police in that city and mind worms are able to police the cities. Or better yet, bypass all that and give them free *light shines down out of the sky and onto this post" punishment spheres.

[Darrell01]

Ok. So looking at my previous post, I've come up with this.

Cult of Planet graphix

Social Ideology - Fundmentalist
Anti Ideology - Democracy
Fungus Nut/Min/Ene - +2/+2/+2
Social Benefit
Support +3
Planet +5
Efficiency -5
Free Facilities
Brood Pit
Punishment Sphere

Interest -10%
Research Whatever you want, Might start out really weak
Population Bonus - Might mess with this. Maybe -8 or something outrageous
Immunity to Mind Control
Alien Faction
Worm Police

Things to fool around with here:
Efficiency can be changed out to -5 industry.
I took out disassociative wave because this faction probably won't research it and won't be able to have it unless you give it to it, and then the human players would grab it.
You can tone down the fungus production to 2/1/0 like Chaos_Theory says, giving you one more slot. You could stick in a technology there. You might give them the tech that allows them to plant fungus.
I think allowing them to do some research is good. Better yet, if you do decide to just completely kill the faction research, you could give them Share Technology 2 or 3 without having to infiltrate them first. This would make sure they are either behind a little in tech, or right up with you, but nuever surpassing you, unless you share all techs you can, then turn in 40 alien artifacts.