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  • #46
    No question summary? I'll make a sorted and organized version with some of my additions. While I am doing it, here is a list of questions for now:

    Questions:

    1. Are we willing to run parallel to any possible Firaxis efforts for SMAC2.

    2. Do we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC and which ones?

    3. Should we develop an accompanying manual, or just ensure everything is covered by the Datalinks?

    4. Are we going to use 3D graphics for leaders? If so, how construct, and using what graphics generator?

    5. Should we document all interactive keystrokes via Datalinks, or in seperate notepad file?

    6. What are all necessary functions in SMAC(X) so we can see what matches up against existing C4 functions?

    7. Are we going to document the process of the mod so that others can follow the same path for their own mods?

    8. What to do with support for other languages?

    9. How are we going to generate 3D SMACX units?

    10. Documentation of how the AI thinks: should it be somewhat apparent via the Python code?

    11. What will we do with the format of new subroutines: follow Firaxis approach, or invent our own?

    12. What is the desired option for mod: to have all relevent files imprinted onto a game?

    13. We are going to need to document all sounds in SMAC(X) to include detailing where they occur. What will we do with the randomly generated music in game?

    14. We will need to identify all files in SMAC(X) and detail what they stand for. How will this task be organized?

    15. What to do with AI negotiation: are we going to improve for SMACX, especially base trading?

    16. How may Firaxis patches for C4 impact ongoing mod and what can we do about it?

    17. What will we do with the u“seless" subroutines: comment out or delete?

    18. What will we do about culture/religion?

    19. Should we aim for fixed border distance as in original SMAC or create options that allow modders to easily modify it?

    20. For our C++/ Python subroutines, what format should we follow for consistency from subroutine to subroutine?

    21. Cheating: how will it be detected, and how countered?

    22. Is the progenitor storyline and factions worth including at all?

    23. Should we include Civ4 diplomacy options not available in SMAC such as "Share secret project effects"?

    24. Shall we reuse old graphics wherever applicable? Shall we draw new graphics to resemble the old or try and take a new direction with a new style that is still in the spirit of SMAC?

    25. What shall we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?

    26. If we believe we can be successful, should we try to submit the mod to Firaxis for inclusion with the first expansion pack? Should we timetable our efforts around this?

    27. Will we make our alterations to the Civ4 files available to the public prior to releasing the first version? Are we afraid of plagiarism/theft/someone leapfrogging us at the last second?

    28. Do we want to try to tackle all factions at once, or concentrate on the original 7-pack at first?

    29. Beyond bug-fixes, do we want to try to implement the original intentions of SMAC (pulse and resonance weapon types), or implement the actual game?

    30. Is the workshop worth implementing if it has to be built from the ground up?

    31. If we don't have a unit workshop how will we assign units? Will we have to choose the most popular units and assign them with tech?

    32. Will the mod be built for Windows platform only?

    33. Will interludes be included?

    34. Will we have new interludes relevant to features introduced?

    35. Should we include resources?

    36. Should "wild animals" and livestock animals will wonder our updated planet?

    37. Will we include different faction city styles or are we restricted to single look?

    38. Will we have to eliminate existing tile improvements, or introduce new stylings for them and incorporate into the game?

    39. Do we want to keep (reimplement) the original simplistic Attack/Defense combat system or would a more advanced combat system be more desirable assuming Civ4 has a bunch of extra variables that effect combat?

    40. Should variants on gameplay be implemented as options rather than forked mods?

    41. Do we need financial resources, donated by volunteers in order to pay for coding time and graphic work? Or do we expect to be able to get everything done with volunteer work alone?

    42. How shall decisions be made, and consensuses reached? Does every major decision go to a poll, a single leader (who?), a group of people (who?) or some other method? Do we need a lead designer to keep every single decision from taking a week to resolve on a thread full of OT posts, or can we handle that democratically?

    43. Should we add more ambient music into the game?

    44. Without the Unit Workshop, would SMAC have the same flavor that its players love? What is it that players love about SMAC? How much of this enjoyment of play is derived from being able to design and build units that fit their needs of the moment, or their long term strategic gameplay?

    45. How much should we try to match the original SMAC? It should be unanimous that we should fix obvious bugs, such as the base screen drone display bug and the multiple airdrop bug. How about borderline bugs, such as stockpile energy? Make them options? Should we try to keep the scenario editor and other features that aren't in the game itself anywhere near what they were in SMAC?

    46. Will we include easter-egg references to Apolyton ?

    47. How large do we anticipate the final revision of the mod to be, and where will it reside for download?

    48. What level should the AI play at in the Civ4->SMAC mod? Should it play to purely to original SMAC? Should it play at Civ4 levels? Should it play at something different? Can it be made in a way to be very easily swapped out?

    49. Should the AI cheat on sufficiently high difficulty levels?

    50. What will we do if we can't mod the height-map in ?

    51. Should we be able to give starting units a higher reactor than a level 1 reactor?

    52. What files will be imprinted onto a "save" file (the equivalent of the alpha(x).txt file would be extremely desirable from a CMN's perspective, and hence from a players perspective as well)?

    53. Do we allow the AI's to build boreholes?

    54. Satelites: need to keep in mind the ability for CMN to gift these to AI's.

    55. We'll need to rank all of the "To Do's" sometime in the near future. Do we tackle the toughest things first, or the easiest?

    56. Can we make automated formers scalable in their level of "retardedness": the higher the skill level, the higher their capabilities?

    57. How much should CMN reveal about their understanding of the current AI's cheat capabilities for this mod?

    58. Powergraph Chart: How do we emulate? How do we calculate?

    59. What counts as part of the game of Alpha Centauri, and what is just decoration? As an example, the resource system (nutrients, minerals, energy) would be unanimously considered a part of the game that shouldn't be changed in making a clone. The structure of the help files would be considered decoration.

    60. Do we want to replicate functions exactly or "in the spirit of"; for example if C4 has a workable health system would we want to include a health system and make the research hospital give a bonus to labs and health rather than labs and pysch? [assuming both options are equally easy but the C4 way adds flavor and doesn't hugely impact gameplay balance]

    61. When playtesting, how should we document bugs that we find?

    62. Concerning the cIV Mod Forum/ Community: should we create a Liason position to interface with them, or at least designate someone to give reports on their breakthru's/ observations of the game?

    63. Are we going to need something like a CVS or SVN repository, once we get to coding? Who is capable of setting something like that up?

    64. Are we going to "rip" files (especially sound) directly from SMAC(X)? If so (and assumign for legal reasons we can't package the sounds), are we going to going to make SMAC(X) a hard requirement or just an optional enchancment? (ie no voiceovers without SMAC(X))

    65. If we require SMAC/X, can we enforce it?

    66. What exactly determines when a monolith should disappear?

    67. What exactly determines when a player should start with a transport, and when they shouldn't?
    SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw

    Comment


    • #47
      Post in work - the content may change without warning

      A. Organizing the Civilization 4: Alpha Centauri project.



      1. Are we willing to run parallel to any possible Firaxis efforts for SMAC2?

      2. What will we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?

      3. How may Firaxis patches for C4 impact ongoing mod and what can we do about it?

      4. If we believe we can be successful, should we try to submit the mod to Firaxis for inclusion with the first expansion pack? Should we timetable our efforts around this?

      5. Shall we make SMAC/X prerequisite for sound files/images/graphics? If we require SMAC/X, can we enforce it?


      6. What are we going to do with support for other languages?

      7.Will the mod be built for Windows platform only?


      8.Are we going to document the process of the mod so that others can follow the same path for their own mods?

      9. Will we make our alterations to the Civ4 files available to the public prior to releasing the first version? Are we afraid of plagiarism/theft/someone leapfrogging us at the last second?

      10. Concerning the cIV Mod Forum/ Community: should we create a Liason position to interface with them, or at least designate someone to give reports on their breakthru's/ observations of the game?


      11. Do we need financial resources, donated by volunteers in order to pay for coding time and graphic work? Or do we expect to be able to get everything done with volunteer work alone?

      12. How should decisions be made, and consensuses reached? Does every major decision go to a poll, a single leader (who?), a group of people (who?) or some other method?

      13. Do we need a lead designer to keep every single decision from taking a week to resolve on a thread full of OT posts, or can we handle that democratically?

      14. How large do we anticipate the final revision of the mod to be, and where will it reside for download?


      15. We'll need to rank all of the "To Do's" sometime in the near future. Do we tackle the toughest things first, or the easiest?

      16. When playtesting, how should we document bugs that we find?


      B. Comparing SMACX to CIV4



      1. Do we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC and which ones?

      2. What are all necessary functions in SMAC(X) so we can see what matches up against existing C4 functions?

      3. We will need to identify all files in SMAC(X) and detail what they stand for. How will this task be organized?

      4. Are we going to use 3D graphics for leaders? If so, how to construct, and using what graphics generator?

      5. How are we going to generate 3D SMACX units?

      Diplomacy

      6. What to do with AI negotiation: are we going to improve for SMACX, especially base trading?

      7. Should we include Civ4 diplomacy options not available in SMAC such as "Share secret project effects"?

      New Civ 4 features

      8. What will we do about culture/religion?

      9. Do we want to replicate functions exactly or "in the spirit of"; for example if C4 has a workable health system would we want to include a health system and make the research hospital give a bonus to labs and health rather than labs and pysch? [assuming both options are equally easy but the C4 way adds flavor and doesn't hugely impact gameplay balance]

      10. Do we want to keep (reimplement) the original simplistic Attack/Defense combat system or would a more advanced combat system be more desirable assuming Civ4 has a bunch of extra variables that effect combat?

      11. Will we have to eliminate existing tile improvements, or introduce new stylings for them and incorporate into the game?

      12. Will we have new interludes relevant to features introduced?

      C. Making the game



      Analysing the game

      1. Should we document all interactive keystrokes via Datalinks, or in seperate notepad file?

      2.


      C. Alterations to SMACX



      3. Do we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC and which ones?

      4. Should we aim for fixed border distance as in original SMAC or create options that allow modders to easily modify it?

      3D Graphics

      7. How are we going to generate 3D SMACX units?

      Sound files

      8. We are going to need to document all sounds in SMAC(X) to include detailing where they occur. What will we do with the randomly generated music in game?

      AI

      9. Documentation of how the AI thinks: should it be somewhat apparent via the Python code?

      10. What will we do with the format of new subroutines: follow Firaxis approach, or invent our own?

      11. What will we do with the “useless" subroutines: comment out or delete?
      Last edited by Illuminatus; October 10, 2005, 06:03.
      SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
      The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw

      Comment


      • #48
        would it be as easy to do "our mod version"

        and not copy all files, thus avoiding most legal issues ?
        anti steam and proud of it

        CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

        Comment


        • #49
          Here's my input. Mostly on the questions themselves rather than answering them.

          3. How may Firaxis patches for C4 impact ongoing mod and what can we do about it?
          A). Nearly all of them, and whatever we need to do to keep the mod working. (also see my note at the bottom)

          5. Shall we make SMAC/X prerequisite for sound files/images/graphics? If we require SMAC/X, can we enforce it?
          The enforcement bit is irrelevant, if you need SMAC/X files to make the mod work, then it’s self-enforcing - those without the files can’t use the mod.
          The real question is whether original SMAC/X content should be integrated & compulsory or optional add-on.

          Near the top of the eventual FAQ on playing C4:AC, a question will be answered in one of these 3 ways...
          "Due to legal reasons no original SMAC files are used."
          "You can play C4:AC without a copy of SMAC, but will not have Wonder Movies or Voiceovers."
          "You cannot play C4:AC without a copy of SMAC."

          12. How should decisions be made, and consensuses reached? Does every major decision go to a poll, a single leader (who?), a group of people (who?) or some other method?

          13. Do we need a lead designer to keep every single decision from taking a week to resolve on a thread full of OT posts, or can we handle that democratically?
          Ultimately those doing the work will make (most) of the decisions, especially the details. If they want input or approval, they’ll ask for it. Just something to bear in mind about the reality of voluntary modding work - modders can be extremely self-motivated and tend to get on a roll. Start planning on handling the creative anarchy .
          We already have the complete design, after all.

          1. Do we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC and which ones?
          This question is asked as if the basis is SMAC and not Civ4. The actual question is "Do we want to reproduce any of the bugs existing in SMAC?"
          (I know we can’t live without the interceptor crash bug, but I’m sure 98% of the others won’t be missed).

          6. What to do with AI negotiation: are we going to improve for SMACX, especially base trading?
          This question makes more sense in relation to Civ4 AI, since the base is Civ4 AI not SMAC AI. The better question is "Which SMAC AI features are desirable?" (such as their habit of taking pity on players)

          1. Should we document all interactive keystrokes via Datalinks, or in separate notepad file?
          I think this question needs to be clarified.

          11. What will we do with the "useless" subroutines: comment out or delete?
          I suspect this question is asking about how to strip out Civ4 stuff that we don’t want, but I may be wrong. There is likely a 3rd option, substituting our own functions (since it’s a dynamically loaded scripting language). It’s the kind of thing that is entirely at the discretion of individual programmers - whatever they think looks "cleanest", since the C4 preserves clean copies of files people can always see the original code if they want to. See note below.

          Note: It is my understanding that we wont actually edit any Civ4 files, rather you'll select the mod in game and it'll preferentially use XML, Scripts, DLL's and media that are found in the mod's folder - in other words the mod will be implemented as an addon rather than a raw modification. Simcity 4 and quite a few other games do it this way (FPS's have been doing it since Half Life and probably earlier). I'd be surprised if civ4 doesn't use this kind of mod "plugin" architecture, in fact it hadn't even occured to me that modding might have to be done SMAC style - that would suck.

          Comment


          • #50
            getting some long posts in here....

            2. What will we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?
            get a different server than poly,and give em the middle finger...could make it private from that time on,so they wouldnt know
            3. How may Firaxis patches for C4 impact ongoing mod and what can we do about it?
            ]wait for a few to be done and then start work.branch off and forget patches at that time
            4. If we believe we can be successful, should we try to submit the mod to Firaxis for inclusion with the first expansion pack? Should we timetable our efforts around this?
            if we are doing that,you can take me off the list of people now.in no way would that be a good idea imo,spending our time to increase firaxis profits??
            5. Shall we make SMAC/X prerequisite for sound files/images/graphics? If we require SMAC/X, can we enforce it?
            imo no. it is not available for purchase(i have yet to obtain a legal copy despite efforts) and just sounds like cd-key BS

            6. What are we going to do with support for other languages?
            ] ignore them for now.i know theres some polish around and im learning german,but couldnt translate.
            7.Will the mod be built for Windows platform only?
            making it linux etc freindly wont be easy

            8.Are we going to document the process of the mod so that others can follow the same path for their own mods?
            if someone steps up
            10. Concerning the cIV Mod Forum/ Community: should we create a Liason position to interface with them, or at least designate someone to give reports on their breakthru's/ observations of the game?
            probably be a good idea

            11. Do we need financial resources, donated by volunteers in order to pay for coding time and graphic work? Or do we expect to be able to get everything done with volunteer work alone?
            lets keep it non-professional imo
            12. How should decisions be made, and consensuses reached? Does every major decision go to a poll, a single leader (who?), a group of people (who?) or some other method?
            need a leader.we should vote on this
            14. How large do we anticipate the final revision of the mod to be, and where will it reside for download?
            bittorrent,variety of p2p...or apolyton. depends on if firaxis gives us legal issues or not

            15. We'll need to rank all of the "To Do's" sometime in the near future. Do we tackle the toughest things first, or the easiest?
            always do the toughest first




            B. Comparing SMACX to CIV4



            1. Do we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC and which ones?
            ]fix? to fix them would require them to be in already.the probe rollover bug wont ever appear unless we implement it.

            4. Are we going to use 3D graphics for leaders? If so, how to construct, and using what graphics generator?
            no 3d leader heads.reuse the ones from SMAC
            5. How are we going to generate 3D SMACX units?
            i already stated in the graphics thread my dislike of 3d.i say ditch it.need someone experianced in 3d obvoiusly

            Diplomacy
            6. What to do with AI negotiation: are we going to improve for SMACX, especially base trading?
            no,not intiul the mod is finished
            7. Should we include Civ4 diplomacy options not available in SMAC such as "Share secret project effects"?
            comment them out and implement later

            New Civ 4 features
            8. What will we do about culture/religion?

            9. Do we want to replicate functions exactly or "in the spirit of"; for example if C4 has a workable health system would we want to include a health system and make the research hospital give a bonus to labs and health rather than labs and pysch? [assuming both options are equally easy but the C4 way adds flavor and doesn't hugely impact gameplay balance

            11. Will we have to eliminate existing tile improvements, or introduce new stylings for them and incorporate into the game?

            12. Will we have new interludes relevant to features introduced?
            comment out everything thats new
            if you want to stop terrorism; stop participating in it

            ''Oh,Commissar,if we could put the potatoes in one pile,they would reach the foot of God''.But,replied the commissar,''This is the Soviet Union.There is no God''.''Thats all right'' said the worker,''There are no potatoes''

            Comment


            • #51
              Perhaps a new thread guys, and leave this one for further questions as we learn more of Civ4?

              I think a lot of discussion is premature before game release.

              Comment


              • #52
                Question: as part of the mod should we include some Scenarios to play (note I can probably build some for inclusion into the mod if there's enough interest)? Also, do we rebuild "The Map of Planet" exactly the same as it was?


                D

                Comment


                • #53
                  Question: when bugs are discovered in code we've written who will be responsible for going back and fixing the bug?

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Terraforming. How much of it do we want to implement? I personally recommend all of it, including elevation (and effects on solar power).

                    For autmated terraformers, I think that if we can get them to do some things, getting them to do all things will be easy, agreed? (I really want a full checklist for having terraformers do exactly what I want them to do )
                    I once was a slave to the Alderbaran 2 project!
                    Now I shall work towards cIV:AC!... Oh Wait, that's dead too...
                    It's Nword like 'lord' and 'sword'

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      A few people have mentioned running into legal difficulties with Firaxis - why not take things in the other direction?

                      *Why not ask Firaxis for relevant bits of SMAC source code?

                      It may seem like an out there suggestion but hey the worse they can do is say no :-)

                      I recently finished a software development group project at university, and it was a great experience. The key to the project's success I think was great leadership (our project manager really knew what she was doing, the other guy in the group who was allocated a leadership position was great at what he did too) and great organisation (we started planning, organising and delegating very soon after the start of the semester and I was pretty clear the whole time about what I we were all supposed to be doing). All this leads me to my next questions:

                      *Does anyone here have any experience with project management?
                      *What do people here think about actively seeking out people with project management skills to help us out?
                      *Can anyone with project management experience give us generic advice about how to run a successful project?
                      *Can anyone here who has worked/is working in the games industry, or who has been part of a successful team of modmakers give us some specific advice about how to successfully create a mod?
                      *What do the Firaxians who post at Apolyton think about the idea of helping us out with the mod? There may be a range of issues with Firaxians helping out but again, the worst they can do is say no

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        *Does anyone here have any experience with project management?
                        Well, I have.
                        Been acting as a senior programmer (basically the same duties as of organising, but less contact with customer as for project manager and less bickering about quality - left that to QAM) for our team.
                        -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                        -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Question: for the purposes of installation is our mod going to assume everyone has installed the game the same way? i.e. that we all installed the game via the "Recommended" version and that we all have the same subdirectory infrastructure, or will our installation program be able to take into account different subdirectory structures?


                          Question: if Firaxis comes out with an expansion pack that has "new and improved" features, do we then buy this expansion pack as well and incorporate it into our mod, or do we stay with the base cIV and continue to mod it?



                          D

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Darsnan

                            5) We'll need to rank all of the "To Do's" sometime in the near future. Do we tackle the toughest things first, or the easiest?
                            Simplifying this question - where do we start? What do we do, and in what order?

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Gnool


                              Simplifying this question - where do we start? What do we do, and in what order?
                              Well, the approach that I am currently taking is of the easy road: by taking the task of modifying one Faction I can then sit there and poke and prod the XML files to see exactly what happens when I do X, and what happens when I do Y, etc. Because this then allows me to become familiar with the format approach used in the XML and Python files, it then should serve me well for when I take on more difficult tasks.


                              One task I know for sure that is rating high on my list is to eliminate the damm startup movie!!! Cuz I'm taking a serial approach of changing just one parameter at a time why I am continually restarting the game to see exactly what happens at each step (including bootup of the game, cuz it will tell you at this stage if it finds an issue with the XML and/ or Python files). I'm already really tired of that stuttering startup movie as well as having to wait for the Firaxis logo to sloooowly build itself onto my screen.....


                              D

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Darsnan:

                                =>hit ESCAPE when the movies play and your game continues.

                                => in the civ4 folder (in programming files), click on "config civ4". This will open an .ini file, where you can disable the opening movie and can also specify a mod to start-up with immediately.

                                => whenever you change something that seems to break the game, go to "documents & settings" / "application data" / "my games" and delete the cache folder under the civ4 directory. Sometimes this solves problems in a magic way.
                                no sig

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