[C4:AC] The Question Thread

[Senethro]

[C4:AC] Brainstorming for the Design Document – The Question Thread

While someone has already pointed out that our design document is essentially SMAC as we know it, as we’re going to have to compromise to some extent. Lets try and decide now what makes the cut and what will be worth our effort.

Reading through the threads, two posts that have got me considering the issue have been lists of questions (or implied questions) by Darsnan and Illu. Here they are. I’ve taken the liberty of editing them.

2. Decide if we are willing to run parallel to any possible Firaxis efforts for SMAC2
3. Decide if we want to fix bugs already existing in SMAC.
5. Should we develop an accompanying manual, or just ensure everything is covered by the Datalinks?
7. Mod being built for Windows platform only?


1. 3-D graphics for leaders? If so, how construct, and using what graphics generator?
2. Document all interactive keystrokes via Datalinks, or in seperate notepad file?
3. Document all necessary functions in SMAC(X) to see what matches up against existing C4 functions.
4. Document the process of the mod so that others can follow the same path for their own mods.
5. What to do with support for other languages?
6. How to generate 3D SMACX units?
7. Document how the AI thinks: should be somewhat apparent via the Python code.
8. Format of new subroutines: follow Firaxis approach, or invent our own?
9. desired option for mod: to have all relevent files imprinted onto a game.
11. Document all sounds in SMAC(X) to include detailing where they occur.
12. Identify all files in SMAC(X) and detail what they stand for.
13. AI negotiation: need to improve for SMACX, especially base trading.
14. Firaxis patches for C4: how impact ongoing mod?
15. Useless" subroutines: comment out or delete?
16. What to do about culture/religion? (Senethro: Good Q. about Civ4 systems in general)
17. Fixed border distance as in original SMAC or create options that allow modders to easily modify it?

1. Do we develop an accompanying manual, or just ensure everything is covered by the Datalinks?
2. For our C++/ Python subroutines, what format should we follow for consistency from subroutine to subroutine?
3. 3-D graphics for leaders? If so, how construct, and using what graphics generator?
4. Document all interactive keystrokes via Datalinks, or in seperate notepad file?
5. document all necessary functions in SMAC(X) to see what matches up against existing C4 functions.
6. document the process of the mod so that others can follow the same path for their own mods.
7. other languages (French, German, Chinese) support question....
8. How are we going to generate 3D SMACX units?
10. Documenting how the AI thinks: should be somewhat apparent via the Python code.
11. Format of new subroutines: follow Firaxis approach, or invent our own?
16. desired option for mod: to have all relevent files imprinted onto a game.
18. document all sounds in SMAC(X) to include detailing where they occur.
21. AI negotiation: need to improve for SMACX.
22. Mod is being built for Windows platform only? (Senethro: Qs like this one here are VERY pertinent)
25. cheating: how will it be detected, how countered?
26. Firaxis patches for C4: how impact ongoing mod?
27. "Useless" subroutines: comment out or delete?

Not short, but then this project was never going to be for the tl;dr of the internet. In this thread lets try and post as many questions as possible about what goes into C4:AC or our methods. At the end I’ll gather them all up, sort them into catagories and we can answer them. By comparing answers and debating points I’m hoping we’ll find the design document.

This is strictly a no answer zone. We shall seek enlightenment and resolution elsewhere after a period of time. Your posts may only contain full stops (periods) in a paragraph finishing with a question mark.

Ok, go.

[Senethro]

A few of mine:

Is the progenitor storyline and factions worth including at all?

Should we use the Civ4 diplomacy system? Should we include Civ4 diplomacy options not available in SMAC such as "Share secret project effects"?

Shall we reuse old graphics wherever applicable? Shall we draw new graphics to resemble the old or try and take a new direction with a new style that is still in the spirit of SMAC?

What shall we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?

If we believe we can be successful, should we try to submit the mod to firaxis for inclusion with the first expansion pack? Should we timetable our efforts around this?

Will we make our alterations to the Civ4 files available to the public prior to releasing the first version? Are we afraid of plagiarism/theft/someone leapfrogging us at the last second?

[Kinjiru]

Do we want to try to tackle all factions at once, or concentrate on the original 6-pack at first?

Beyond bug-fixes, do we want to try to implement the original intentions of SMAC (pulse and resonance weapon types), or implement the actual game?

[dmm1285]

Is the workshop worth implementing if it has to be built from the ground up?

[wgabrie]

If we don't have a unit workshop how will we assign units? Will we have to choose the most popular units and assign them with tech?

i.e.
1-2-1 with industrial base,
2-1-1 with Applied Physics,
but no option for a 2-2-1 unit?

[Fosse]

Is the unit workshop worth building if we have to from the ground up? Dear heaven, yes! Mostly it's expected that it will have to be built, since Civ4 has advertised no similar feature. If it's impossible to make a unit workshop I don't really see an option other than wgarbie's proposal that will suit the first version.

Is the progenitor storyline and factions worth including at all?

I say that efforts are sent completely in one direction or the other. Some people are assuming that the discussions here are all about SMAC, some about SMAX. That should be decided "officially." If we want the tech tree, native life, res-armor, etc. from SMAX then make the factions and aliens as well.
For my two cents, skip SMAX, concentrate on SMAC (which a greater number of our potential future contributers will have) and get it done and working. It'll cut down a bit on artwork and code writing for the initial project.

Should we use the Civ4 diplomacy system?

I think that the SMAC multiplayer diplomacy window is the one to model here, for use in human/AI relations. It's in SMAC and it should be pretty analagous to what's in Civ4. it won't require the coding and scripting that recreating the SMAC human/AI model, and it will be able to build on the existing Civ 4 AI (I think).

Should we include Civ4 diplomacy options not available in SMAC such as "Share secret project effects"?

Not in the first version. Those would radically change the way a game of SMAC plays out. It may be awesome, and I'll probably lobby to have it in the next version. But not first.

Shall we reuse old graphics wherever applicable? Shall we draw new graphics to resemble the old or try and take a new direction with a new style that is still in the spirit of SMAC?

I say we reuse and update shamelessly wherever it's legal to do so. We probably aren't going to have an Art Director, and I don't think anyone that's signed on so far has claimed to be any good with graphics. So keeping things as true as possible to SMAC will save time and effort. Plus, it will keep true to the spirit of the original that much more.

The artists we do get are going to be busy enough as it is, I suspect, without starting from scratch. Making the Civ4 3d map look like Planet, with 9 kinds of land, 3 kinds of sea, native life, forests, and Planet's several landmarks, is going to use a LOT of graphic muscle. I'd rather volunteers do that than make a 3d model of Miriam that scowls when she's angry (and also when she's happy, probably. )

What shall we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?

Rename it, rename everything involved in it, carry on with Apolyton's Falfa Menbari, and shake our heads at the poor customer PR. I think that as long as we do not seek any kind of commercial release we should be fine. Lots of fan mods and conversions would be blatant copywright violations if they were commercial and I don't recall hearing about that ever causing problems for them.

If we believe we can be successful, should we try to submit the mod to firaxis for inclusion with the first expansion pack? Should we timetable our efforts around this?

Hell yes! (assuming they don't have legal issues! ) The chance for an actual release just might galvanize the efforts, too.

[binTravkin]

22. Mod is being built for Windows platform only? (Senethro: Qs like this one here are VERY pertinent)

I think this question should be striped out as answered right now.
cIV itself is for all platforms, so will be our mod.
I hope we won't have to dig so deep that any compatibility issues arise.

Should we use the Civ4 diplomacy system?

EDIT: just looked myself, strange they must've reverted..idiots!


And I've already answered to most others as well..

[Senethro]

Fosse: Read the OP! No discussion/answers in this thread!

BinT: Yes, I've seen the email popping backwards between you and Darsnan but I think some of these are worth being asked again in public to inform and gain more views!

[Gavin Berchler]

I think we should make the mod Windows only to punish bin travkin for not paying attention to the topic.

1) will interludes be included.?
2) will we have new interludes relevant to features introduced?
3) what resources to include
4) what "wild animals" and livestock animals will wonder our updated planet.
5) Will we include different faction city styles or are we restricted to single look

[Gavin Berchler]

6) will we have to eliminate existing tile improvements, or introduce new stylings for them and incorporate into the game

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by Senethro
What shall we do if Firaxis bring up legal difficulties?

I think we should get a firm handle on this, and do it in the short term, as I don't think we have the graphics muscle to start from scratch if the Big F doesn't allow us to use their original graphics....


D

[binTravkin]

I like your sig update D!

Actually, Illu probably has some idea on the legal part, hasn't he?

[Blake]

Do we want to keep (reimplement) the original simplistic Attack/Defense combat system or would a more advanced combat system be more desirable? [assuming Civ4 has a bunch of extra variables that effect combat]

A loaded question:

Should variants on gameplay be implemented as options rather than forked mods? [refering to talk of seperate "SMAC clone" and "SMAC + improvements mods]

[Kataphraktoi]

This is strictly a no answer zone. We shall seek enlightenment and resolution elsewhere after a period of time. Your posts may only contain full stops (periods) in a paragraph finishing with a question mark.

cannot compute



Ive already said this several times. we cannot,cannot add new things or incorperate existing elements,because everyone is wanting there own pork barrels in. i must reiterate this point over and over,as some keep suggesting adding new things

[binTravkin]

Just brainstorm..