Forbidding more than one politics, etc

[doodle_diddle]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I cannot seem to get it to work.

I am creating a faction that I would like to limit its SE choices to Police State and Frontier (not allowing Democracy or Fundamentalism) and forbid it from using Green economics.

Is there a method of doing this?

Thanks

[Illuminatus]

I think it is hardcoded to have only one SE preference and only one SE aversion.

[Major Guz]

Re: Forbidding more than one politics, etc

Originally posted by doodle_diddle
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I cannot seem to get it to work.

I am creating a faction that I would like to limit its SE choices to Police State and Frontier (not allowing Democracy or Fundamentalism) and forbid it from using Green economics.

Is there a method of doing this?

First of all: Stupid questions are the ones you don't ask !

I don't know if this will work, but you could try editing the faction profile in the text editor (not the one supplied with the game, just plain old text editing), in the first part you have to add AVERSION, DEMOCRACY, AVERSION, FUNDAMENTALISM
Ore something like that. Please check by looking to the hive.txt (which has aversion to Democracy) and the university.txt (which has aversion to fundamentalism). Use these parts which state their aversion and then copy-paste them into your faction profile.

That's the best I can come up with. If you already tried this, I am sorry I could not help you.

Please let us know how it turned out.

Good luck

[binTravkin]

It won't work, however you might make them a little less desirable to AIs, but changing the 3rd value of aversion and preference lines in {faction}.txt - open the file yourself and see, you'll find it pretty easily.

[doodle_diddle]

I tried that Major Guz. Thanks for the suggestion though. I got the idea from a NetworkNode factions that said it limited their Politics to just Frontier. When I tried it with mine, it didn't work so I guess it wouldn't work with their's either.

binTravkin, could you elaborate on your suggestion? Maybe with an example?

Thanks!

[binTravkin]

I already expected you'd ask..

The Hive.txt file (important lines bolded):

#HIVE
Human Hive, The Despot, Hive, M, 1, Yang, M,  1,  1, 0, 1, 0,
  TECH, DocLoy, FACILITY, 4, SOCIAL, +GROWTH, SOCIAL, +INDUSTRY, SOCIAL, --ECONOMY, IMMUNITY, EFFIC
[b]  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Politics, Democratic, nil[/b]

So, I was talking about the 3rd value, which in this case is:
POLICE for preference
and
nil for aversion

Now, let's say you want to almost disable Hive going any Economy.

1st step:
Take a look at preferences.
What do we have there? - POLICE
And what do we have for FM SE? -5 Police!
Does it mean Hive will like FM? Noooo.

2nd step:
Take a look what's left:
Planned and Green.
Have you ever seen Hive running Green when not surrounded by heavy fungus?
I guess no.
So what's left? Right, Planned.

3rd step:
Make Hive disable Planned.
You have used your preference slot, so you can't use EFFIC as a preference (as that would make hive NOT like Planned but like Green).
But your aversion slot is free.
So what's the biggest value of Planned?
GROWTH, correct:

  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Politics, Democratic, [b]GROWTH[/b]

(important string bolded)

This combination will have Hive going for POLICE-rich SE while avoiding GROWTH-rich SE.
It also works the other way around:
This combination will have Hive going for GROWTH-poor SE while avoiding POLICE-poor SE.

So, what's left.
Hive now will like green, because it has aversion to Growth gives Green SE +2 in Hive's "opinion".

What can you do.

1.You know that Hive will always take Police if possible and the Democracy disabling does not change anything.
2.So you make Hive not able to run green:

  Politics, Police State, POLICE
  Economics, Green, GROWTH

Now, looking at the "Politics" hive thinks like:
"Heah, I have a pref here and Im gonna take it - Police State"

Looking at the "Economics" hive is like:
"Hmmm, Im unable to go Green, FM has SUCH a high Police minus (-5 "opinion") I'd never run it, also Planned has this stupid growth (-2 "opinion"), so Im gonna take the default chance - Simple, as it does not offend my agenda (read - preferences)

Looking at the "Values" hive is like:
"Hmm, Im indifferent here as none of the SE has any undesired-to-me effects, so Im gonna take power because Im an agressive fellow."

And finally looking at the "Future Society" hive is like:
"Eudaimonia is disgusting - it gives GROWTH (-2 "opinion") while Thought Control is just what I need (+2 "opinion")!"

So you've effectively got a faction running Police/Simple and later Power.

This aversion line is usually ignored by modders but the combination of the two is very powerful.

If you somehow run in the case where you got aversion to the positive value and preference of other postive value of the same SE, like liking Growth but disliking Effic for democracy, you can calculate the total "opinion" by summing them up which in this case is 2 - 2 = 0.

Also there's hidden agenda by AIs when to take which SE or politics which can sometimes make it defect from your forced scheme (but that's gonna be under some special circumstances which are rare).

[Maniac]

I'm having a problem with the Morganites in SMAniaC.

Private/Free Trade economies come available later than Private/Protectionist economics, so I'd want Morgan to run Private/Protectionist until Free Trade becomes available. That's why I've set their preferences & aversions to this:

Economics, Private/Free Trade, ECONOMY
Economics, Planned, nil

Morgan refuses to run Protectionist though, and rather prefers Subsistence economy, even though it has a lower ECONOMY value. Any idea what I could do?

Here's the economics line of my SE system:

Subsistence, None,
Private/Free Trade, PlaEcon, +++ECONOMY, +RESEARCH, -TALENT, --INDUSTRY, -SUPPORT
Planned, Algor, ++GROWTH, +INDUSTRY, --EFFIC
Private/Protectionist, IndEcon, ++ECONOMY, -TALENT, -INDUSTRY, -SUPPORT

[GeoModder]

I would suggest replacing the Private/Free Trade line with something else. Since he goes for Economy, he'll switch to Free Trade anyway due to the Economy value, but I think there's more chance he'll take Private/Protectionist first if he comes to it without being 'eager' for Free Trade.

[Maniac]

Hmm, yeah...
I could switch his preference to Plutocrat.
The drawback would of course be that Morgan won't be pissed off anymore if you run Planned, and that running Plutocrat would become even more attractive.

[GeoModder]

Perhaps he will be 'pissed off' later ingame then, when he is in a stronger position and can make a harder fist? Or perhaps not, seeing that you put an extra -1 support in the Free Trade line.

[doodle_diddle]

Thanks for the example. That cleared everything up. I didn't know that you could put something in the third field for aversion.

Future Society, Thought Control, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

So this will make them choose police state, avoid Free Market and Green and not allow Democracy and when they get a future society, they will choose Thought Control. Right?

[GeoModder]

It *might* be that with those preferences in a war he will switch to Fundamentalism.

[doodle_diddle]

Yeah I thought of that GeoModder but my faction is totally against Democracy and Planet so I don't want him going Green and it seems the only way to limit that is by making him avoid PLANET. If he turns fundy I guess that is okay. The faction is called the Oppressors and religion has had its fair share of oppression! LOL

[binTravkin]

Maniac, have you noticed that your desired SE stands in the 'Green' slot?
Morgan is thinking it's 'Green' if you don't point him to take it (give him a bonus in 'opinion' about it):

Economics, Private/Free Trade, ECONOMY
Economics, Planned, INDUSTRY

Now he will have a +2 for Private/FT and a +1 for Provate/Protect.

If it's not enough, you can try to fiddle more with SUPPORT or TALENT

doodle_diddle, your scheme has a double-definition:

Future Society, Thought Control, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

Don't you think that if you set POLICE as a value, they'll take TC(Thought Control) anyway?
If the faction is 'agressive', it furthermore tilts it to TC.

nil, nil, POLICE
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

is completely enought to make it usually run Police State/Planned (yes, they will run planned with this setup!) and probably Fundy/Planned at wartime.

So, you now have one free slot - the SE preference slot to use for anything you want, either ensuring he'll always take Police by setting

Politics, Police State, POLICE
nil, nil, PLANET

(note that aversion to democracy is not needed as AI will now take Police State and only it, so you now have one more free slot for disabling something)

or anything else which makes sense/does not overlap with other settings (as your original setup does).

[doodle_diddle]

True, but when a person plays the faction, they can choose Democracy which I don't want them to. Before I changed it I had

Future Society, Thought Control, INDUSTRY
Politics, Democracy, PLANET

Is this better?