The Second Ship: Two Sets Based on the novel Earth

[Googlie]

Originally posted by MysticWind
Urgent question: is it possible to have a planet buster as a starting unit. If it¡¦s possible, should I give it away? Would it be too powerful?

Possible - but the trouble with that is that every lessor weapon is then already prototyped, so you are giving a huge advantage to that faction over and above that starting PB

[MysticWind]

The problem with the planet buster is that I’m not sure if it is allowed as a starting unit. I think it doesn’t count as a unit.

Here are more edits. Bear in mind I’m probably going to toss in a lot of other attributes eventually, like aversions and impunities:

Planetary Settlers: I’m making their aversion Wealth. Yeah, they become Gaian like. Or would taking away FM and making them Gaian-Spartans be more interesting and original?
FC Magistrates: I’ll think of something eventually. DON’T PRESSURE ME!
Actually, maybe I’ll add
–1 Economy (Politics over paychecks)
Free ability: Deep Radar
I know I’ll have to add more later. Anything I should change?

Elders of Chiron: Buh? I lowered their research capability. Their stats are now:
-2 Growth (It’s a colony of old people, for cryin’ out loud!)
+1 Probe (Vid game fanatics, the children of Counterstrike)
+1 Research (Have preserved substantial tech files following Arrival)
+1 Morale (You haven’t got much more to see after you hit 300… might as well fight)
Receives double votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader (Senior Citizens’ voting clout)

Therefore, their research is strong but not much as University.
Parish of Planet: very strong vertical growth, weak horizontal growth, strong research, strong energy
What? If I don’t restrict research, the PoP gets strong research? Oh, and by this description, is this faction balanced or not?

Sons of Centauri-Ra: strong research, strong energy, slightly weak vertical growth, strong military

Are they too powerful? I like your summation, but I don’t know if I have to tweak them more or not.

AXIS (ignoring the SotHB restriction): strong military, large military, very strong early military, strong horizontal growth, weak psi
Are they too powerful? I like your summation, but I don’t know if I have to tweak them more or not.

Global Energy Exchange: I’ll lower Economy to +1, but they also get 3% INTEREST per turn. If that’s too much, I’ll either lower it to 1.5% or slap a techcost 135% on them. Do you know anything that can mirror an economic crash? Like a penalty attribute that hurts them especially if a disaster occurs?

New Athenians (with normal-cost colony pods): ridiculously strong horizontal growth, strong infrastructure, very strong vertical growth. NO PENALTIES AT ALL! BROKEN!

ACK! I’M GIVING THEM +1 Growth (fecund, prosperous citizens)
+1 Industry (the rich fund city projects)
-1 Police (armement expenditures are third priority)
Extra talent for every two citizens. (Cultural centers)
Penalty Wealth
250% Construction time for Colony Pods (Quality over quantity)
Free Rec Commons at each base.
SHOULD I LOWER SUPPORT TO –2? I MIGHT ALSO LOWER POLICE TO –2. THEY PROBABLY WOULDN’T GET TOO MANY DRONES IN The FIRST PLACE
Raiders: I’ll give ‘em
Technology: Doctrine: Mobility
+2 Support (Bases geared towards military preparedness)
+1 Morale (Military strength for raiding attacks)
+1 Probe (Have read Asimov’s Foundation series)
Starts with free unit: Unity Speeder
Need Hab Complex for bases to exceed size 2 (Against sedentary lives)
Can steal a technology when capturing a base.

And finally, Librarians v.2:

Technology: Information Networks, Social Psych
+1 Research (Considerable knowledge kept)
+2 Probe (Formidable library network defenses)
-1 Morale (Scholars uninterested in warfare)
-1 Industry (Integration of Planet wanted before industrialization)
Extra talent for every three citizens (Learning centers)

Again, I might throw in other attributes to the ones above (aversions, immunities, penalties), but they wouldn’t be social aspects (research, growth, etc.), unless these are still unbalanced/too much like original ones/boring.

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by MysticWind
FC Magistrates: I’ll think of something eventually. DON’T PRESSURE ME!
Actually, maybe I’ll add
–1 Economy (Politics over paychecks)
Free ability: Deep Radar
I know I’ll have to add more later. Anything I should change?

Not at this point, since they don't have any particularly strong advantages.

Elders of Chiron: Buh? I lowered their research capability. Their stats are now:
-2 Growth (It’s a colony of old people, for cryin’ out loud!)
+1 Probe (Vid game fanatics, the children of Counterstrike)
+1 Research (Have preserved substantial tech files following Arrival)
+1 Morale (You haven’t got much more to see after you hit 300… might as well fight)
Receives double votes in elections for Planetary Governor and Supreme Leader (Senior Citizens’ voting clout)

Therefore, their research is strong but not much as University.

I didn't say they were too strong. Compare them with the CyCon, who get +2 effic, +2 research, 2 starting techs, and a couple minor bonuses for just -1 growth.

Parish of Planet: very strong vertical growth, weak horizontal growth, strong research, strong energy
What? If I don’t restrict research, the PoP gets strong research? Oh, and by this description, is this faction balanced or not?

With their starting +4 growth (+2 factional + free creches), this faction's bases will very quickly grow until out of nutrients, due to drone problems. Throw in Police State (since they have +3 effic in bases) for extra police and Planned for the growth, and you get size 7 bases very rapidly, and the ++support from PS facilitates horizontal expansion. Drop PS in favor of higher efficiency (say, Demo/FM) once you can control your drones, and you reap the benefits any faction would from pop booming, except much sooner. Pop booming is a very good way to get ahead in research, thanks to specialists. Played well, I think the Parish would crush all of the original 14 factions.

Sons of Centauri-Ra: strong research, strong energy, slightly weak vertical growth, strong military

Are they too powerful? I like your summation, but I don’t know if I have to tweak them more or not.

They probably aren't too powerful, but could be a surprise.

AXIS (ignoring the SotHB restriction): strong military, large military, very strong early military, strong horizontal growth, weak psi
Are they too powerful? I like your summation, but I don’t know if I have to tweak them more or not.

They need more penalties, but are a nice idea if you can pull off the free Planet Buster. Even if this prototypes every weapon for them, it's an advantage comparable to the Spartans' free prototypes.

Global Energy Exchange: I’ll lower Economy to +1, but they also get 3% INTEREST per turn. If that’s too much, I’ll either lower it to 1.5% or slap a techcost 135% on them. Do you know anything that can mirror an economic crash? Like a penalty attribute that hurts them especially if a disaster occurs?

They still need a significant disadvantage. Morgan only gets +1 Econ and some extra energy for his disads.

New Athenians (with normal-cost colony pods): ridiculously strong horizontal growth, strong infrastructure, very strong vertical growth. NO PENALTIES AT ALL! BROKEN!

ACK! I’M GIVING THEM +1 Growth (fecund, prosperous citizens)
+1 Industry (the rich fund city projects)
-1 Police (armement expenditures are third priority)
Extra talent for every two citizens. (Cultural centers)
Penalty Wealth
250% Construction time for Colony Pods (Quality over quantity)
Free Rec Commons at each base.
SHOULD I LOWER SUPPORT TO –2? I MIGHT ALSO LOWER POLICE TO –2. THEY PROBABLY WOULDN’T GET TOO MANY DRONES IN The FIRST PLACE

You can't give them 250% cost colony pods. You really need a good concept of what their failings are. The Athenians aren't a perfect society, unless you want them to be AI-only. For example, Morganite are hedonistic, Hivereans have no initiative, Drones live in the present, and so on.

If I were playing this faction:
I'd laugh off Penalty Wealth. I don't need to attack anyone, and creches (though not free, they're still cheap) work even better when I have low morale!
-2 Police helps offset free Rec Commons, but having two units of drone control at every single new base, free, is very attractive. Even late in the game, new bases usually have drone problems that can only be solved with hurries or certain secret projects. Not so for the Athenians.
-2 support is significantly painful, as it makes Democracy a difficult SE choice.

Raiders: I’ll give ‘em
Technology: Doctrine: Mobility
+2 Support (Bases geared towards military preparedness)
+1 Morale (Military strength for raiding attacks)
+1 Probe (Have read Asimov’s Foundation series)
Starts with free unit: Unity Speeder
Need Hab Complex for bases to exceed size 2 (Against sedentary lives)
Can steal a technology when capturing a base.

Now there's a harsh penalty. It's not crippling because size 2 bases plus crawlers are still nice, and throw on hab complexes for size 9 bases, but in the mid game, low population will hurt. Against most factions, they'll want to hurt them for being better builders, and will have the means to do so.

And finally, Librarians v.2:

Technology: Information Networks, Social Psych
+1 Research (Considerable knowledge kept)
+2 Probe (Formidable library network defenses)
-1 Morale (Scholars uninterested in warfare)
-1 Industry (Integration of Planet wanted before industrialization)
Extra talent for every three citizens (Learning centers)

Again, I might throw in other attributes to the ones above (aversions, immunities, penalties), but they wouldn’t be social aspects (research, growth, etc.), unless these are still unbalanced/too much like original ones/boring.

-1 Industry is a strong penalty, which would justify some pretty nice bonuses. The Library looks reasonably balanced to me.

Most factions need social aversions, and sometimes they substantially alter the impact of the faction's ads/disads. What would the Gaians be without Aversion: Free Market? The Planet Cult's -1 econ wouldn't hurt if they could run Free Market/Wealth. On the other hand, sometimes they just make undesirable options impossible, such as Lal's aversion to Police State.

[#endgame]

Note that restricting habs lowers the habdome level, so a habcomplex only equals size 5 bases - barely enough for specialists.

[Chaos Theory]

Right, and since 7 is the normal limit, lowering it to 2 lowers the limit with a hab complex from 14 to 9, small but quite viable.

[#endgame]

Yeah, that's what I meant, must've had brainwires crossed.

[MysticWind]

Parish of Planet: Aversion of Police State, probably
I would try to put some restriction on drones, but I can dig the irony and I'll keep the above as a penalty to create drone riots until I can think of something better.
New Athenians: Got it. They're somewhat pacifistic, so I'll disable them further with the
-2 Police (armament expenditures are third priority)
-1 Support (Ditto)
-1 Research (Foppery and dandying more important)

I'm not sure of what to do about the Rec Commons quite yet, because I need to work out the stats a bit more. I'll add a few word modifiers (penalties, hurry costs, etc.) after I've read over the list tomorrow.

The main point of the New Athenians is that they are somewhat like Morganites, but their main goal isn't just financial gain, but the creation of the "perfect city." Thus they're concerned with beauty and art and fashion, but also social justice. So, I don't want to hurt them too much by creating drones, and I'll give them a research minus but not at Believer-level. Their main problem is that they're too busy looking inwards that they don't try to compete with the outside world too much.
Therefore, I might add a combat minus as well. The -support, or -morale.

Nanotech Technologists: They're concerned with a technocracy, but their meritocracy which gives engineers (and eventually computer-chosen smarty-pants) power also tends to alienate parts of the masses. Would it be too boring to give them +2 Research, since there are quite a few factions with that already? Maybe Advanced Subatomic Theory is a good start?
Advanced Subatomic Theory (Is this too powerful?)
+1 Research (Science considered the cornerstone of society)
+1 Industry (Nanotech yields great profits)
-1 Planet (Grey goo has not been adjusted for fighting pollution just yet)
+2 Police (Society sponsors lawmen to weed out drones)

Drone-related modifier here, don't know which one
Hurry Cost boost, perhaps

Psions for Purity: I'm giving them a +25% Psi combat boost

Elders of Chiron: Is the above version from my last post still too much like Uni? It's probably time for me to bust out the nonconventional stats.

[MysticWind]

I don't want to trouble ya, but some comments on the last post would be greatly appreciated.

[Chaos Theory]

Originally posted by MysticWind
Parish of Planet: Aversion of Police State, probably
I would try to put some restriction on drones, but I can dig the irony and I'll keep the above as a penalty to create drone riots until I can think of something better.
New Athenians: Got it. They're somewhat pacifistic, so I'll disable them further with the
-2 Police (armament expenditures are third priority)
-1 Support (Ditto)
-1 Research (Foppery and dandying more important)

I'm not sure of what to do about the Rec Commons quite yet, because I need to work out the stats a bit more. I'll add a few word modifiers (penalties, hurry costs, etc.) after I've read over the list tomorrow.

The main point of the New Athenians is that they are somewhat like Morganites, but their main goal isn't just financial gain, but the creation of the "perfect city." Thus they're concerned with beauty and art and fashion, but also social justice. So, I don't want to hurt them too much by creating drones, and I'll give them a research minus but not at Believer-level. Their main problem is that they're too busy looking inwards that they don't try to compete with the outside world too much.
Therefore, I might add a combat minus as well. The -support, or -morale.

They're worth playtesting. I'm suspicious they're still very potent, but it's not ridiculous anymore.

Nanotech Technologists: They're concerned with a technocracy, but their meritocracy which gives engineers (and eventually computer-chosen smarty-pants) power also tends to alienate parts of the masses. Would it be too boring to give them +2 Research, since there are quite a few factions with that already? Maybe Advanced Subatomic Theory is a good start?
Advanced Subatomic Theory (Is this too powerful?)
+1 Research (Science considered the cornerstone of society)
+1 Industry (Nanotech yields great profits)
-1 Planet (Grey goo has not been adjusted for fighting pollution just yet)
+2 Police (Society sponsors lawmen to weed out drones)

Drone-related modifier here, don't know which one
Hurry Cost boost, perhaps

They still need some meaningful penalty.

Psions for Purity: I'm giving them a +25% Psi combat boost

On top of fanatic and other mods? I've lost track of all the changes they got; you should repost what the factions do, or edit your original post.

Elders of Chiron: Is the above version from my last post still too much like Uni? It's probably time for me to bust out the nonconventional stats.

They're actually more like the CyCon than the Uni, upon reflection. If you want a faction that's good at Research, you'll have a hard time escaping the umbrella of the Uni and the CyCon.

[#endgame]

I like the idea of giving the technologists a reasonably advanced tech. Just be careful that you don't make it too easy for them to get Fusion Power really early.

[MysticWind]

I'm not working on the factions at the moment, but I did get a chance to scan my (horrible) sketches of the Faction symbols. I would really appreciate it if someone could give me some comments or judgments.


Planetary Settlers


International Federation of Countries


Sons of Centauri-Ra


Elders of Chiron


Parish of Planet


Darwin Raiders

***


Anti-Xenos Initiative Society


Psions for Purity


Global Energy Exchange


New Athenians


Library of Planet


Nanotech Technologists

I promise that eventually I'll touch up these emblems.

[MysticWind]

Hey! I told you guys that I'm going to touch-up these pictures. Are they so horrible that there is nothing to be said about them?

Also, how do I display pictures I uploaded onto the server board?

[#endgame]

Like the nanomachine one .

[Senethro]

Its the Creation board. Noone sees.

We could do anything we want in here and the mods wouldn't care.

Anyway, I'm saving all my Creative ability for a SMAC mod for Civ4.

[MysticWind]

I will not allow the usurper Senethro dominate this board. I am not at the moment building any of my fourteen proposed factions, but at the very least I'd like some advise on the viability of my plans thus far.

-Which some of you have given me.

I thank you all for that.