Your favourite faction(s).

[Mensonge]

Well..

I've done my best, the Pirates are so slow..

There's huge lack of minerals everywhere, pods and formers take ages to produce, I can't rush them because of a lack of energy as well and to top all that nutrients are useless because bases go on riots as soon as reaching the second level of population, and the third if I have recreation commons, which also take long to build..

HGP? Forget it, they make it before me the three times I restarted, so I'm stuck with level 2 bases.

I lack everything.. At least with the Free Drones I could build stuff and get a good economy even if I didn't research at all.

How do I send you here my save?

[CEO Aaron]

If you click 'go advanced' below the quick reply box, you'll see an attachment option.

[Mensonge]

I can't seem to be able to upload it, it says it's an invalid file..

But it's not corrupted or anything.

[CEO Aaron]

Try zipping it.

[Mensonge]

It should work now.

[CEO Aaron]

Okay, I'll download and check whether I can load and play this map tonight. I'll knock out some turns and see where we get.

[Mensonge]

Alright, we'll see!

[FlameFlash]

Now I'm curious too. May have to take a look.

[CEO Aaron]

Well, here's a screenshot of my game at turn 70.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure I drove the early game as well as I could, but I'm on 14 bases, and I'm about to unlock the nutrient cap. Deirdre slipped a transport by me to settle the island to my north, I missed sinking it by one turn, which was disappointing. I'd have liked to have uncontested access to that island, but now I'll have to fight for it. In the meantime, I'm busy spreading like a weed and trying to exploit my available territory as best I can. What were your game settings? I can already tell you've got a huge map, because the maproot didn't trip my first efficiency warning til my 9th base. Pod scattering seems really thin, My starting island had ZIP, there were two in the water north of me, and from the area I've explored I've found two more. That's definitely going to shut down any early SP attempts. Also, I REALLY doubt you took the default ocean ratio on this map. That also is not playing to Sven's strength. But, in all, I still think it's a playable position, I'll just have to use more dirt than I'd usually have imagined.

You were right in one regard, however. There's just no way to grab the HGP before Miriam grabs it. She's obviously sitting on Jungle, you can tell just by how she's lurched in front of the power graph. Dealing with her will be a HOOT. Fortunately, she's a dumb as a bag of lead-painted chew toys, so I'm not too worried about her coming over and whomping me before I can get my act in gear.

Right now, I'm on the cusp of getting Gene Splicing unlocked, which is the first important milestone in the nutrient-focused strategy. My terraforming might be able to be better than it is, I decided to try and found a flurry of early bases, in hopes that the payoff in mid-to-late game would be worth the delay in seeding kelp. One thing I really don't like about this starting position is that, apart from the geothermal shallows, the first island really doesn't have much ocean shelf to play with. It's all diving straight into deep ocean a tile or two away from shore, which is a pain. Still, there's plenty of nice shallow lagoons and archipelagos to the north I'm looking forward to infesting. It should all work out fine.

Anyway, once Gene Splicing is done, I should have the nutrient surplus I need to start supporting some engineers, which will definitely help with the growth and development. That and getting non-lethal methods should get the production ticking over. We'll see.

PS: One thing I forgot: How annoying Sven's music is. I'm gonna have to turn that off.

[Mensonge]

Okay, first of all I don't play with pods. There's no unity scattering, so there're no more pods to be found.

However, considering how hard it is for Sven to grow in the beginning of the game, I'm going to change that and start a new game WITH pods so I can have an advantage at being at sea. Otherwise, playing Sven is a mere punishment, I'll explain the impotence later.

About maps, I always play on huge maps.

And yes, the ocean is at best 50% of the map in my settings. Why? Because Pirates need land too ( shelf squares and close land tiles ) and because too much ocean would be unfair for others, but okay, I will get a little more water than that next time. I might have gotten a bit ahead of myself here.

Now, my first conclusions:

I think my main mistake was to concentrate on sea bases for my first ten bases, while I should have concentrated on making exclusively LAND colony pods with a transport from my first two sea colony pods - which are free - and occupy the inner land FIRST, BEFORE surrounding it with other sea bases.

Even better, there are two free colony pods when you start a game, one should settle just right next to one island, the other right next to another island of your choice, instead of settling around ONE island, then you can start colonizing both islands with the two sea bases located near each respective island.

I think the main problem with the Pirates is the incredible paradox of their playstyle in the beginning of the game.

You're supposed to be the king at sea, but in the first years, you had better stick to the land asap and as much as possible until you can be afford to be the king at sea. Why? Because sea bases don't produce as much minerals as land bases, and anything that is sea-made is MORE expensive than their land counterpart, EVEN for the Pirates.

In that regard, an all-sea approach - which should be suited for the Pirates - is a fool's choice.

So what is the point of suffering on the SE table with -1 efficiency and -1 growth?

I can deduce those:

- If you're playing with unity pod scattering, send foils asap and get them all before others. After you've used your first two sea bases to make a transport to transport on the island a land colony pod, you should just send the transport unit away at sea to collect more pods at sea, to cover as much of the map as possible. You can also use your first foil, and send it even from turn 1 to collect unity pods.

Once land bases are created, they'll make formers and terraform land tiles the two sea bases can work, and with these tiles ( forest ) you'll make more foils to cover even more of the map.

To sum it up, your two first sea bases should just be used to:

1 - Prepare the colonization of islands with land colony pods.
2 - Create units to seek/explore the ocean before others.

Forget about terraforming the sea, it's not worth it until mid game.

There also really is no point in creating more than one sea bases per island until later in the game. Actually, it's also possible to create one land base right next to the sea, and make it produce a transport and another colony pod for another island, so your first two sea bases could very well be the only ones you'll have until mid game.

Really, Sven advantages are mostly about setting foot on territories faster than others and dwell on unclaimed territories. Eventually you'll have a strong position when others barge in.

If you play a warmonger with the pirates, in the game I attached here this would be attacking Deirdre on the right, you're ruining the only real advantage the Pirates have: explore and set foot on islands FAST before others do.

- Sea bases only become interesting when nutrient and energy caps disappear, until then, it's useless to try to colonize the sea. I've done it, even with Planned researched asap it's a terrible deal.

Just stick to " 1 sea colony pod to create a transport and a land colony pod per island " and you should be fine, or just keep the first two and use a land bases right next to the sea.

My final word: I'm surprised you made so many sea bases, CEOAaron.

[CEO Aaron]

Playing without pods on a huge map is pretty much a 'builder factions need only apply' sign on your map. The reason those pods are there is to make exploration worthwhile, without them, of course the Morganite and University navel-gazers are going to run away with the game. Sven is the ultimate exploration-based faction, the absence of pods is TOTALLY a hamstring.

I think the idea that Sven 'should be able to only build sea bases' is in your head only. I built bases where I had territory available to plant a base, and I'm likely to continue to do so. Yes, I plunked down on the island early, but that's mostly because that's the territory I had nearby. There was just a bunch of deep water to my north, that's worthless. I could have gone on walkabout before I settled my first base, but that rarely pays off for the lost turn advantage. But if the game had placed us in the shallows say 10-20 tiles northeast, you'd absolutely be able to plant an all sea-base foundation.

I'm confused how you think sea-bases are a poor deal. They're exactly the price of what you get: 8 rows for a colony pod and a recycling tank. That's the same price you pay for a land base with equivalent value. You could make the argument that you lose some resources by front-loading the tank cost, but I find that the difference in investment cost is so minimal as to be pretty much negligible, especially when your pod-building base has taken care of business and gotten its formers and garrison built. You want both, in my opinion, and for good reason: You need to establish borders. If someone else is on the landmass your seabase is working (like Dierdre to my north and east), they own all the land tiles, and you can't work them. But the same is said of the seabases territory I've claimed off her shore: It's mine, and she can't work it, a fact I plan to exploit to stifle her growth and expansion until she can be thoroughly digested. I can only think of one REAL drawback of sea bases, that you can't build your sensor towers under them to give them a permanent +25% to defense.

[Mensonge]

Svensgaard_of_the_Pirates_a_1_2101.zip

Alright, I'm giving it another try with pods this time.

Here's attached the save, let's see what we can do.

[FlameFlash]

[Mensonge]

I've played a new game with the Free Drones until around 2300 and I quit before seeing the end of it. The game was simply too easy. Granted, the game is always kind of easy against AI, but this time, it really was TOO easy to a point it becomes boring and no satisfaction can be drawn from winning becomes there never was any challenge.

+2 industry really is the best faction advantage one could get, hands down. Once I got around bypassing the tech penalty, the game was already mine after 40 years. Suffice to say, Free Market allows to get the tech lead even with a -2 research penalty if you pop bases everywhere. Poping bases everywhere with the Free Drones is easy, especially if you find yourself in a nutrient-rich area.

And that's WITHOUT trading tech OR probing your neighbor. I had a game where I was totally isolated, and had no contacts for almost two thousands years. Did that stop me in any way to get the tech lead, the economy lead and the military lead by a long shot? Nope.

At least with Morgan, you can't grow beyond size 4 for a while, and creating pods is a hassle. Eventually, you'll get the same leads, but it'll be troublesome and you'll feel you have earned it which is the point of any decent game.

But with the Free Drones, after popping bases, you can pop-boom and you have the cash and the speed to build all the secret projects before others, to build twice as much bases and troops as all other factions united, and with the secret projects you get first you become even more productive. It's just crazy. The perfect example is the planetary transit system. In the hands of the Free Drones, it's totally cheap.

In conclusion, the Pirates was a let-down to me because it didn't feel right, the Drones are too easy, so I'm either getting back to my Morganite playstyle which is more balanced or I'm trying again with the Pirates.

Heck. :/

[Mensonge]

I've decided to play a new pirate game, and it's much better.

I've had a little more luck this time with the pods, and I used Free Market a short time after exploring quite a bit, I'm having much more success than the first time.