What's the attraction?

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Should I redact my quote?

I've found Oerdin to be kinda great as long as you're patient and thick-skinned with him, and if he follows through on trying AC, I figure he'll become one of us, and could be a valuable member of the club. I think he'll reconsider and edit to tone that down.

...I'm pretty proud of us for all being so calm and reasonable in our responses...

[Lord Avalon]

And it is too for sale.

http://www.mastertronic.com/productSoldOut.asp?pid=756&productLabelID=1

[The Mad Monk]

SMAC

I love the atmoshere delivered by the art and music, the scads of references that make you think with everything you build or research, and the completely modable factions. There is so much to see and do, I doubt I will ever tire of it completely. I last played a couple months ago.

The only real thing I would add is the ability to make new structures and techs from whole cloth, the way you could in CivIII.

[zsozso]

Let me chime in with my own explanations about what is the attraction:

• For me SMAC was the first Civ-type game I played and got hooked forever. Before SMAC I loved games like SimCity and RailRoad Tycoon (although I also spent a lot of time playing the original DOOM at the time, so I was not restricted to brain-games ).
• I always loved SciFi (books and films) and that was an important factor why I bought SMAC as soon as I heard about it.
• Then I got so addicted to SMAC, that it has seriously jeopardized my family life and work. At one point I had to give up playing (deleted the game and put away the disk) to force myself back into normal life. No other game has ever had similar effects on me.
• I have tried playing other Civ games but none of them got me hooked as much as SMAC. The ancient technologies are just not as attractive to me as the SciFi setting. Also, the unit designer and the social engineering matrix allows more depth and variety than many other Civ games present with predefined unit types and fixed government types.
• For a Civ-type game graphics is really secondary concern. E.g. I play Civilization Revolution on the PS3, but the beautiful graphics on the console version does not compensate for the lack of depth compared to SMAC.
• And finally, a very important angle for me: Thanks to the LokiGames port, I can play SMAC/X on linux. Before the port came out, SMAC was the only last reason for me to keep a windows installation on a machine at home. Since the port came out, I am completely Microsoft-less which makes me very happy!

[Dinner]

Because -I like you, Oerdin, or I wouldn't have called you on it AND answered the question politely- you're coming into our fan club and not bothering to be diplomatic with a question that clearly implied that our game that you hadn't tried sucks.

I've played SMAC (way back when it came out 10 years ago) but have not tried SMAC/X or what ever people are calling the mod.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

Ah. I stand corrected.

It's worth revisiting, though. The expansion isn't all that much of an expansion, however.

[St Jon]

I think the concept of 'old equating to bad' is very flawed. I play CivIV which is hugely better than CivIII but it is still far from perfect. I still play the odd game of CtP1 MP, the AI was atrocious, and will dust off the CivII once in while.

SMAC is a classic TBSG and when it came out it was just so much better than anything else around! The really important thing is that it has stood the 'Test of Time'! It was a quantum leap in TBSG's in 1999 and it still has that magic. The amount of time and effort people will put into creating Maps and Mods for it shows that it does still inspire a lot of interest. I only came back to Poly after not having done any MP gaming for over 7 years in the hope that maybe a few people would be around who could remember SMAC. Within a week of posting to see if anyone would be interested in a PBEM the human slots were filled. That's the sign of a truly GREAT game that after 10 years there are the number of people still playing and wanting to play more!

BTW. What brings you out of the OT Oerdin? Sighted here and and in the CivIV Forum! Has Asher been nasty too you?

[Dinner]

Nope. And for the record I don't understand at all why people claim the OT is what lead to slower traffic in the on topic forums because that has everything to do with content and the fact that there hasn't been a decent new Civ game in years. I bought Colonization 2 and the reality is there is hardly ever anyone in the lobby so it is clear few people are playing it. If a poster bothers you then use the ignore feature since that is what it is for.

[Ironwood]

Let me chime in with my own explanations about what is the attraction:

• And finally, a very important angle for me: Thanks to the LokiGames port, I can play SMAC/X on linux. Before the port came out, SMAC was the only last reason for me to keep a windows installation on a machine at home. Since the port came out, I am completely Microsoft-less which makes me very happy!

Is it even possible to get that working on a modern distro? I tried getting it working a few years ago under Ubuntu (Dapper Drake?) and the conclusion I ended up coming to was that it was less compatible with newer kernals than SMAC Windows was with Cedega. That was how I ran it, until I upgraded Ubuntu and not even Cedega would run it any more.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

O, could I ask you as a favor to me and everyone here to tone down the insult to vyeh? Everyone would be a lot happier if you did.

I think if you changed one word, it would help a lot.

Please?

[CEO Aaron]

Let's see, what's the attraction?

For me, SMAX is the most engaging of the civ-like games. I have played Civ-like games since the original Civilization, and played similar guns and butter titles like Empire before that. While newer titles have come and gone, I still feel like SMAX offers depth and complexity that the newer entries have never even tried to imitate.

The depth and flexibility of terraforming options, just for a start. Sure, you can build roads, irrigate and mine in other Civ titles, but what other Civ title lets you create rivers, level mountains or leave a crater where a city used to be?

The more granular mix and match Society Effects, in lieu of the earlier (and later) government types. With those options, you can create nearly any type of society. While the SE settings don't perfectly analogue to what we might think real life is like, the matrix of choices is more flexible and colorful than a flat menu.

The unit creation system, while lacking some flavor of custom units, gives you the flexibility to create really interesting units, if you so choose. I'll admit that the cost structure heavily incentivizes certain choices, but the point is that alternatives are still there. Civ units tend to look like 'cavalry' then 'better cavalry' right up until you get tanks.

The factions! Civ factions, faction generator aside, have real personality. They're not just a culture that's flagged with a slider or two that provides largely inconsequential bonuses. Different factions in SMAC/X offer big playstyle consequences, from the beginning of the game onward, in a way that I don't see in other civ-likes.

I'll be the first to admit that SMAX has its flaws. The AI was never any great shakes. But later civ titles didn't beef up the AI, they just hamstring the human player with see-saw mechanics that keep you from cementing your gains as easily. The graphics weren't even that eyepopping upon release, however the UI is SMAX I find more informative at a glance than later generation games. Multiplayer can get cumbersome, but really, if you want a non-cumbersome multiplayer game, you need to suck it up and play a RTS. And sometimes, I just want to take my time to make decisions. Isn't that what strategy is supposed to be about?

[zsozso]

Is it even possible to get that working on a modern distro? I tried getting it working a few years ago under Ubuntu (Dapper Drake?) and the conclusion I ended up coming to was that it was less compatible with newer kernals than SMAC Windows was with Cedega. That was how I ran it, until I upgraded Ubuntu and not even Cedega would run it any more.

Yes, it is working with Mandriva 2009 -- my current desktop distro. I never had any problems with kernels, but there was a time period when it was crashing due to an X bug. The bug surfaced at the end of 2006 (Mandriva 2006 was still OK, but 2007 had the bug) and it persisted for a couple of years -- I tried various distros all had that X bug. Fortunately, he bug has been fixed sometime late last year and now SMAC linux works again. In the meantime I kept 1 machine with the 2006 installation and did not upgrade so that I can play SMAC on it

[Dinner]

Let's see, what's the attraction?

For me, SMAX is the most engaging of the civ-like games. I have played Civ-like games since the original Civilization, and played similar guns and butter titles like Empire before that. While newer titles have come and gone, I still feel like SMAX offers depth and complexity that the newer entries have never even tried to imitate.

The depth and flexibility of terraforming options, just for a start. Sure, you can build roads, irrigate and mine in other Civ titles, but what other Civ title lets you create rivers, level mountains or leave a crater where a city used to be?

The more granular mix and match Society Effects, in lieu of the earlier (and later) government types. With those options, you can create nearly any type of society. While the SE settings don't perfectly analogue to what we might think real life is like, the matrix of choices is more flexible and colorful than a flat menu.

The unit creation system, while lacking some flavor of custom units, gives you the flexibility to create really interesting units, if you so choose. I'll admit that the cost structure heavily incentivizes certain choices, but the point is that alternatives are still there. Civ units tend to look like 'cavalry' then 'better cavalry' right up until you get tanks.

The factions! Civ factions, faction generator aside, have real personality. They're not just a culture that's flagged with a slider or two that provides largely inconsequential bonuses. Different factions in SMAC/X offer big playstyle consequences, from the beginning of the game onward, in a way that I don't see in other civ-likes.

I'll be the first to admit that SMAX has its flaws. The AI was never any great shakes. But later civ titles didn't beef up the AI, they just hamstring the human player with see-saw mechanics that keep you from cementing your gains as easily. The graphics weren't even that eyepopping upon release, however the UI is SMAX I find more informative at a glance than later generation games. Multiplayer can get cumbersome, but really, if you want a non-cumbersome multiplayer game, you need to suck it up and play a RTS. And sometimes, I just want to take my time to make decisions. Isn't that what strategy is supposed to be about?

This is a good answer. I do agree that the AI has been a continual weak spot in the Civ franchise all the way up to C4:C.

[Ironwood]

Yes, it is working with Mandriva 2009 -- my current desktop distro. I never had any problems with kernels, but there was a time period when it was crashing due to an X bug. The bug surfaced at the end of 2006 (Mandriva 2006 was still OK, but 2007 had the bug) and it persisted for a couple of years -- I tried various distros all had that X bug. Fortunately, he bug has been fixed sometime late last year and now SMAC linux works again. In the meantime I kept 1 machine with the 2006 installation and did not upgrade so that I can play SMAC on it

I've actually got it installed now. I had to force the install script to recognize my 64 bit system as a 32, added compatibility libraries, linked it it what it needed, and even needed to install Compiz Fusion Icon to switch to metacity when I want to run SMAC, but it installed, and it starts.

And then it crashes the moment I make planetfall, with the following error:

X Error:  BadMatch
  Request Major code 66 ()
  Error Serial #527
  Current Serial #530

Any ideas?

[Ironwood]

Strangely enough, it suddenly works, with no intervention from me. I read somewhere you have to run it as root, so I tested that, realized I need to set the ISO to a mountpoint to run it sans CD, did that, and now it just plain works, root or no root. So I am now happily able to tab between the game and my broswer, rather than having to reboot to Windows whenever I want to play.