ACDG6: Operations

[Mart]

I agree, the first SP may be The Rejuvenation Tanks. About Cycon, I mean that they probably will grab some other SP anyway, so we would loose another that we also wanted to have. E.g. Vitro Fertilization, kinda comparable with Rej. Tanks, cause have less 1 drone in bases 3 or less. But Rej. Tanks are cheaper though. Maybe Weather Paradigm, Cycon probably will get one anyway.

That's true, income 10 would be possible in bases with size 4, all workers each getting 2 energy, plus base tile with at least 2. Only Cytosino is size 4 now. So we could get something like 8 to 9 energy.

About formers and restrictions lifting. Many our present tiles have 0 or 1 energy only. We want restrictions lifted, but let us first use the limit. Let most our workers be on tiles with 2 energy, like solar collectors on elevation 1000+, forests on rivers, boreholes, or also bonuses, etc. We can faster improve these tiles, but we need formers to do it. Especially boreholes, a few of them getting by workers 6 minerals and 2 energy is a lot of resources, especially fast for building crawlers. Enough to support more than 1 former per base. And therefore I would build more formers first, let them start on those expensive boreholes sooner, it will repay fast. 4 formers can get a borehole in 6 years only. I think it's possible to get 2 by 2150.
And +1 industry will get us faster formers, crawlers, recreations commons, etc. For me it is worth 36 labs now.

[Mart]

Can we agree not to switch to plutocracy in 2140?

Let's have a third vote. Hydro? Maniac? I hope we won't get 2:2 ...
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Optionally, someone can throw a coin.

[vyeh]

Tech Choice assuming we acquire applied plasma physics

Suppose we acquire applied plasma physics.

We started with Biogenetics.

We will have researched Centauri Ecology, The Exowomb, Polymorphic Software, Renewable Energy Sources, Military Know-how and Gene Splicing.

We received from Delan Centauri Hydrology and Information Networks.

We received from Aki Zeta-5 Industrial Base and The Fission Reactor.

We received from Elevea Ecological Engineering and Industrial Automation.

We recovered from a data pod Social Psych.

We stole from Silvera Field Modulation, High Intensity Lasers and Mechanical Resonance.

Assume we acquire applied plasma physics.

What are our choices for the next tech?

Which techs do we have the research prerequisites for?

Tech (Conquer/Discover/Build/Explore) t

Long Range Missiles (C) 8
Nanotube Mass Production (C) 9
Zero Point Energy (D) 12
Know-how: Sea Power (E) 35
Military Doctrine (C) 43
Secrets of the Human Brain (D) 48
Retroviral Geneering (B) 76
Progenitor Psych (E) 78

Following the procedure:

n = 18
s = 1
b = 1 (the trade with Aki-Zeta 5 hasn't reset the counter)

Tech (Conquer/Discover/Build/Explore) t, n + t + s - b

Long Range Missiles (C) 8, 26
Nanotube Mass Production (C) 9, 27
Zero Point Energy (D) 12, 30
Know-how: Sea Power (E) 35, 53
Military Doctrine (C) 43, 61
Secrets of the Human Brain (D) 48, 66
Retroviral Geneering (B) 76, 94
Progenitor Psych (E) 78, 96

The joker tech is the Explore tech nearest the beginning of the list, know-how: sea power.

Since nanotube mass production, zero point energy, secrets of the human brain and progenitor psych have values of t+n+s-b that are divisible by 3, they will not be available.

So we will be asked to choose from (ordering by ascending explore techs, then ascending discover techs, then ascending build techs and finally ascending conquer techs) know-how: sea power, retroviral geneering, long range missiles and military doctrine.

[vyeh]

Let's have a third vote. Hydro? Maniac? I hope we won't get 2:2 ...
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Optionally, someone can throw a coin.

I think you need to give Hydro the following answers:

(1) What is your problem with the build plan I've offered for the next four or five years that allows us to rush a colony pod, five recreation commons and end up with 10 formers (with the four expansion bases working on formers as their second build after rush building recreation commons)?

(2) Would you switch to private/protectionist as soon as possible after the four bases are established?

(3) How do you justify delaying the next directed research tech and many subsequent research techs by one or two turns (if we both end up with plutocrat/private/protectionist after 6 or so years, the net savings will be only be around 29 minerals minus the 4 credits per year that plutocracy will cost us, or 17 minerals equivalent, which is only enough to build one more former)?

If you're planning to go to private/protectionist as soon as possible after the four expansion bases are established, we're talking about delaying directed tech by one or two years. It will take a long time for the extra former to make up 36 labs.

Weighed against the extra former's efforts is the loss at every river monolith, solar collector on squares elevated above 2000m, solar collector on every river elevated above 1000m for every year zero point energy is delayed (with the exception of the squares with energy bonuses).

Remember how we had to wait until we had high energy laser before we could build a rover to take out Aurora and how we just beat out a laser squad at Aurora?

If a one year delay means that we have to build an extra combat unit, then any advantage to having plutocracy 6 years early vanishes.

If you're planning to delay going to private/protectionist, then the delay in directed tech research increases (and you're losing the benefit of a +2 economy).

If we were ahead in the tech rate race, I could understand trading off part of our tech rate. I do not understand trading off part of our tech rate when we are almost last. We know that the Consciousness and the Ghosts have two techs we don't have. Since Elevea is the tech leader, we can surmise she also has techs we don't have.

In a trade off between getting directed research tech a year or two earlier and an extra former, I'll take the tech.

[vyeh]

That's true, income 10 would be possible in bases with size 4, all workers each getting 2 energy, plus base tile with at least 2. Only Cytosino is size 4 now. So we could get something like 8 to 9 energy.

Only base tiles on rivers get 2 energy. Currently Cytosino has 3 workers and 1 doctor. The doctor isn't harvesting energy. After we establish the four new bases, none of our bases will be able to have 3 workers without a doctor, psych allocation or hologram theatre. So the maximum energy would be 5 (or 6 for a base tile on a river).

About formers and restrictions lifting. Many our present tiles have 0 or 1 energy only. We want restrictions lifted, but let us first use the limit. Let most our workers be on tiles with 2 energy, like solar collectors on elevation 1000+, forests on rivers, boreholes, or also bonuses, etc.

In several of our bases (Genesis, Purini, Mutatio, Uracil) several of our workers are on forests. If they are moved to solar collectors on elevation 1000+, we will lose a mineral or two. If we're rushing items, that extra mineral is worth 2 energy.

We can faster improve these tiles, but we need formers to do it. Especially boreholes, a few of them getting by workers 6 minerals and 2 energy is a lot of resources, especially fast for building crawlers. Enough to support more than 1 former per base. And therefore I would build more formers first, let them start on those expensive boreholes sooner, it will repay fast. 4 formers can get a borehole in 6 years only. I think it's possible to get 2 by 2150.

If we're interested in additional energy, a borehole is not the best use of former time until energy restrictions are lifted. In the time 4 formers can build one borehole to produce 0-6-2, they can build 4 solar collectors to produce 1 or 2 energy (depending on elevation).

There are very few squares that we can build boreholes on. A borehole cannot have a lower elevation land square next to it. We currently cannot lower terrain (even if we could, lowering terrain destroys jungles).

And +1 industry will get us faster formers, crawlers, recreations commons, etc. For me it is worth 36 labs now.

The 36 labs assumes that you will switch to private/protectionist in 6 years. Otherwise, it will be a lot more.

My calculations, shown elsewhere, says that going plutocrat in 2140 will only net one extra former worth of minerals.

As I've stated elsewhere, that +1 industry comes with +1 economy (which only gives us 1 extra energy in going from -1 to 0), -2 research and -1 efficiency.

It also comes with -2 morale. If the Ghost declare vendetta on us, we will have to drop out of plutocracy. It will have an impact on any combat with mindworms.

The other thing that should be considered is that we lose -1 efficiency. Besides the effect it has on labs and credits, there might be an effect in disorder. We might have to turn the third worker in one of our original 5 bases to a doctor earlier than we would have under technocracy.

[Hydro]

Plutocrat only makes sense in combination with Private/Protectionist. Getting a 0 economy rating gets us almost nothing - it's the +2 eco we're shooting for. I'd advocate switching after our bases are done, which will be a few years.

Frankly, at this point in the game I'm more interested in getting our industrial base up and running than tweaking energy production and research rate. Yes getting energy restrictions lifted is good, but it's getter to get to +2 eco. We are late Early Game, and my opinion is that right now Minerals Are King. With more production our options expand enormously. We have so much to build, and throwing energy at it is pretty inefficient (even if it is the great equalizer in many ways).

The reason I say this is that my last game as Morgan in SMAniaC showed me the horrible results of poor industry but lots of energy. Frankly, life sucked. And I lost my MP big time against another player who had adequate tech and superior production.

End of line.

Game over.

[Mart]

I may be alone in my opinion, but as a faction member I will input here what it is. Maybe I'm convincing, maybe not. Everything is some estimate anyway, there are numerous factors effecting the outcome. Let others decide. Democracy game is about discussion what to do.
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Just noticed, that you gave an answer, Hydro.

[vyeh]

Templar established Odavos.

Note that once we get to +2 econ any square that is already producing 1 energy will be maxed out at 2 energy until energy restrictions are lifted. That means that forests and rivers will produce the maximum energy and any other square with a solar collector will produce maximum energy (unless there is a bonus energy).

So we can look at increasing our mineral production.

[vyeh]

Everything is some estimate anyway, there are numerous factors effecting the outcome.

That is not true.

It is certain how long it takes for one former to build a mine.

It is certain what the maximum mineral of a base can produce this turn and the next few turns.

It is certain how much it will cost to hurry.

An analysis of base operations has very little estimate.

It is better to make a sound decision choosing the best probabilistic alternative based on the actual tradeoffs rather than hoping a random event will bail out a poor decision.

Let others decide. Democracy game is about discussion what to do.

I did let others decide. I did a lot of discussion and out of everything I said, Hydro responded to the point that plutocracy only raises our economy to zero.

[vyeh]

Current (2141) power graph:

We're third after the two aquatic factions and we have the most territory.

[vyeh]

We established Mendel Institute.

Current (2142) power graph:

[vyeh]

Current (2143) power graph:

[vyeh]

We're in a position to establish two bases next year.

The year after next, we would change to private/protectionit.

And the year after that, to plutocracy.

If we have enough production to beat the Consciousness to the rejuvenation tanks, could we build the weather paradigm first?

If we build the rejuvenation tanks first, then the Consciousness could complete the weather paradigm before we had a chance to build it.

[Hydro]

New bases and SE changes sounds good!

HGP first. Losing WP is unfortunate, but a large empire requires stability and HGP is like half a free rec commons at all cities. Free facilities are always good.

Assuming we lose WP, let's consider other SPs. PTS is good for growing and stability for cities size 3 and less. Maybe that is less important since we are likely to be done with new bases and near size 3 before it is complete? CDF is good since it give a free perimeter defense. If you've got a large number of cities CDF is a good investment. ME seems pretty useless to me. Thoughts?

[vyeh]

Okay. Rejuvenation tanks first.

After that, do you agree with the weather paradigm if it is available. With all our former activities, an increase in terraforming speed is more useful than moving to size 3 (since our growth is still +4 with anthropocentric and hatchery).

After weather paradigm, I think command nexus because it increases morale.

I think the planetary energy grid (free energy banks) is more useful than free perimeter defense.

So my order would be:

rejuvenation tanks (HGP)
weather paradigm
command nexus
planetary energy grid
vitro fertilization center (PTS)
polymorphic def system (CDF)
echelon mirror park (ME)

Let's see if we can agree on an order.

We're currently (2143) producing 43 minerals per turn. Consciousness needs 11 years to produce rejuvenation tanks (HGP).

In 11 turns, we will produce at least 470 minerals. We have ogre and alien artifact, which is approximately 100 minerals.

Plus we have some accumulated minerals in supply crawlers and we can buy minerals at 2 credits each.

So we could probably grab the first three secret projects, since they only cost 200 minerals each (once we switch to private/protectionist and plutocrat).