ACDG6: Operations

[Mart]

That's true, we loose from 8 to 6 EC per turn, but when hurrying facilities, we actually gain a lot of EC, like 4 mineral rows give us 8 EC back by not spending them.

Regarding research, our own accumulation is not the only way to acquire technologies any more. We have contact with many factions and we can trade or steal techs. So the loss of research speed may not be that significant. It is difficult to predict exactly how many and when we could trade/probe for techs, but I would not think of some research slow-down as very harmful at this point. We now can build 6 Secret projects. We have few new techs recently, we need to use them now. Build more crawlers, instabuild SPs. Build few more useful facilities, like recycling tanks for example.

There is, however, something more important in my opinion, that maybe can go for the economy council of the decade 2140-2150:
1)We need formers to:
- terraform more tiles suited for workers, so get better minerals and energy in bases.
- build more roads for defense and ability to use crawlers in the field, then use them for Secret project hurrying. Roads are quite important here when we want build SP, other bases will contribute crawlers much more efficiently.
Plutocrat is lower former cost by 2 minerals (4EC)
2) We need more crawlers for SPs or improved food/minerals/energy in the bases.
3) We need more facilities like: Recycling tanks, Network nodes.

All these will build faster with plutocrat. So my sense is that some loss of research can be actually not significant if we switch to plutocrat for this decade. For now, it can be around 6 RP/turn. I checked like 24 down to 18 per turn.
Faster benefits from formers, recycling tanks and network nodes can offset these losses. And crawlers for SPs difficult to say, they are unique.

I would make years 2140-2150 devoted for improving infrastructure, getting units like formers and crawlers.

I will write about other council matters soon.

[Hydro]

Mart - yes, marine probes are possible. In fact, the AI builds them all the time in SMAniaC. The Ghosts are particularly notorious in my previous SMAniaC games for having them run around and steal tech from sea bases. LESSON: get infantry probes up on all bases near the sea! I'd bet the Atlantians will do the same.

I agree in general that tech is a bit less important now. After all, we sold most or all to the other factions so when they research they will likely get new techs. Translation - the AI will be getting techs we can steal or trade for. Selling Mech Resonance may not be a bad idea either since the Templar have it and the Ghosts soon will. We are likely in for a long period of tech parity since the AI is not shy about selling tech.

Our priority will be to get better development, expand our bases to get more resources, and get our bases linked together for defense. This is our true long-term advantage. The only key tech left is lifting energy restrictions (Applied Physics that we are now researching, then Zero Pt Energy).

With that in mind I still advocate cashing the Artifact for a SP. It will take time to build formers, get roads, and build crawlers (or industry is still pretty limited), and get our industry productive. Our build priorities right now should be social stability (RCs, maybe HGP), formers (roads, forests, mines), production (supply crawlers on mines), defenses (infantry probes, decent defenders and response teams) and then crawlers for speeding SPs. Getting HGP will go a long way to achieving social stability, which will greatly aid all of the other objectives. Social stability = turn advantage.

Hydro

[vyeh]

Our research rate is currently 16 years per breakthrough. At that rate, I am depending on trades. Our prospects for trades are limited since we sold a lot of technologies (several times) in order to have enough credits to build recreation commons.

Stealing techs is tough now that the Templars are gone. If we steal from the Ghosts or Consciousness, we risk a vendetta or losing a pact. The Angels don't have any tech.

We have enough credits to purchase recreation commons without plutocrat. Since the Ghost are researching mechanical resonance, we're at military parity. Once we have zero point energy (and the energy restrictions are lifted), we need to return to researching millitary techs or risk going behind.

The two aquatic factions have an advantage in research (because kelp/tidal harnesses promote large bases with high labs).

We already have a research slow-down at this point. Our research rate is 16 years. Consciousness is 12 years. Angels is 7 years. Ghost is 8 years.

I don't see the logic in saying that just because we have some new techs that we acquired from trade and probe operations and we haven't built the corresponding secret project, that we should slow down our research until we've built those secret projects.

There is clearly a tech we could use immediately. If we don't get zero point energy, we're wasting energy (we already have a monolith on a river near Uracil that is only producing two energy/year; we're sending a colony pod to two other monoliths on rivers; Cytosino is taking resources from a river that is over 1000m in elevation).

I don't have a problem with building crawlers and secret projects, but we can still do that without plutocrat for the next few years (once we have established our four new bases, we'll switch to private/protectionist and then to plutocrat).

Plutocrat reduces our mineral row from 9 minerals to 8 minerals (11%), but decreases our research rate from 16 years to 20 years (25%).

While we need some new formers, we want to be careful about more than one former per base. Each former cost a mineral in support. We have 5 formers and another 3 in production.

Crawlers are fine with me.

As for facilities, Maniac once made the point that if you have forests, it is more economical to build crawlers than network nodes if you're in a situation where you are not producing much labs.

Only 3 of our bases are producing 4 labs. The rest are producing 2 labs or 1 lab.

In those 3 bases, a network node would produce 2 labs at a cost of 1 credit. If we built a crawler, we could harvest another energy from the forest. And a crawler is cheaper than a network node.

Recycling tanks are always a plus.

You've already pointed out that plutocrat saves 2 minerals or 4 credits per former. Plutocrat saves 4 minerals or 8 credits per recreation commons.

We're looking at 5 more formers at most and 5 more recreation commons. So we're looking at a potential savings of 30 minerals or 60 credits.

Switching to plutocrat reduces the labs generated from 24 to 18 and the income from 9 credits to 5 credits.

It will be roughly 2146 before we can establish all our new bases. So we're talking about 6 years. This translates to a loss of 36 labs and 24 credits.

So it basically is a wash, except for opportunity costs. Since we have enough credits for recreation commons, we're talking about a few former turns (on the plutocrat side) and a delay in our research of one or two years (on remaining technocrat).

The opportunity cost for delayed research varies. Two turn delay in zero point energy (and the lifting of energy restrictions) could be around 4 energy per year based on our current situation. So maybe 8 energy.

We might be able to sell Silvera's commlink and mechanical resonance, so we might still be able to hurry the formers.

And there is a big difference between directed research and trading or stealing tech. With directed research, we can choose techs that are useful. When we steal a tech, it is random and based on the techs the probed faction has.

Even a trade depends on the techs the other faction has and is willing to trade.

With our tech rate already the lowest of the factions we know about (the Templars will certainly be lower; the Atlanteans, the overall tech leaders, are certainly higher; it is unclear about the Cult) and no necessity for plutocrat (we have enough credits for the necessary recreation commons), I don't see the tradeoff between research and production favoring production.

And a two year delay in reaching zero point energy means two year delays in researching all subsequent techs. A two year delay in researching a military tech could translate to a multiple of two years in fighting an enemy faction.

While there may be faster benefits from formers, I think we lose only a few or no former turns (so it isn't much of a factor).

As for recycling tanks, each recycling tank generates on average and not taking into account inefficiency, half a lab. Plutocrat saves 4 minerals per recycling tank. After we build the necessary recreation commons and formers, it is unlikely we will start (especially if we want to get to work on a secret project) a recycling tank in the next 6 years, so recycling tanks are probably not a factor in offsetting losses.

Network nodes are currently less useful than recycling tanks and are more expensive than recycling tanks, so they won't be a factor in offsetting research losses.

As for crawlers, unless the crawler is completed within 6 years, it doesn't matter when we switch to plutocrat as long as it happens before the crawler would have accumulated enough minerals to complete under plutocrat (since the number of accumulated minerals doesn't change).

Currently only Uracil and Mutatio are building crawlers. Under technocrat, it will take 7 years. Under plutocrat, 6 years.

I would make the years 2140-2150:

(1) the first half would be devoted to building 4 new bases and stabilizing all bases with recreation commons; bringing the number of formers up to one former per base; completing the road network;

(2) once all 4 bases are established, we would switch to private/protectionist; and the next year, we would switch to plutocrat;

(3) the second half would be devoted to building one secret project;

(4) our terraformers would focus on increasing mineral output and on energy bonuses (since there is an energy restriction);

(5) infantry probe defenders in Genesis and Purini (our two seaports); and

(6) prototyping a resonance laser unit.

While I see the attraction in the increased production under plutocrat, I think it is essential that we get to zero point energy as soon as possible. We are currently researching applied plasma physics, which will take another 12 years. Zero point energy is another 16 years after that.

While we will gain some energy from the new bases and some energy from solar collectors or thermal boreholes on energy bonuses, we're going to be pinched for credits and labs until we have zero point energy.

Even if we are able to acquire zero point energy by trade, we still need to watch our tech rate because we only have military parity.

Amphibious pods require know-how: sea power, which we don't have.

Hydro, zero point energy is very important. What do you mean by better development?

Please note that Aki Zeta-5 has resumed building the rejuvenation tanks (human growth potential) after building some combat units. She has 14 turns to go.

We don't have to decide whether to cash in the artifact. We can wait until we are 5 rows short and then see where Aki Zeta-5 is. If we want the rejuvenation tanks (human growth potential), we need to build supply crawlers after recreation commons and one former per base (we probably can still build infantry probe teams for our two seaports, but we may have to hold off on decent defenders and response teams).

[Mart]

When going to plutocrat we will loose some research. But I think exact number of research turns or points lost is not a good indication of losses or potential gain. We need to invest into development, sooner or later. Having some techs earlier is good, but when our territory will not be terraformed and specialists needed to be doctors, we will not use it very well, with few tiles we will not gain a lot.

Formers, I would go for 2 per base. That's true, they cost, but this is formers that build mines/boreholes giving even more minerals. We can already build boreholes and condenser, both expensive, so we need quite a number of formers. Solar colectors are quite good in energy even before restrictions are lifted. Most of our tiles now have energy 0 or 1, and I think this is main problem with slow research time. Having solar collectors we get to 2 energy/tile more often, so research will improve, as well as EC income.

Plutocrat maybe gets us next tech in 3 turns later, but during next turns, when we will be able to build faster, hurry cheaper we will get facilities, formers and crawlers sooner, so actually 15 turns should be reduced back. The sooner we invest the sooner we will gain advantages, I think even before getting zero point energy.

I agree, network nodes are not that good before decent energy is devoted for research, so they can go into lower priority than formers, crawlers and recycling tanks.

Recycling tank is kinda like a crawler. Crawler gives often 2 resources, like you place it on forest or farm early in the game. Recycling gives 3 resources. Crawlers costs 3 rows, recycling tank 4 rows. And the facility is potentially better defended in a base from mindworms than a crawler in the field.

Development - why many formers. We need tiles for workers and crawlers. The following terraforming is best for bringing very much improved resources:
- condensers, 12 turns, help to maintain more specialists.
- boreholes, 24 turns, minerals before energy restriction lifted, even better than a mine when all energy is lost when crawling, 6 to 4 minerals.
- solar collectors, 6 turns, we have none of them and on tiles below 2000 meters elevation they are very useful still, later echelon mirrors can enhance them.
- roads, varied turns, very crucial for both economy and defense.
The sooner we get more of these above, the sooner we get more resources to upkeep more formers, units, and have more population.

As I see it, few turns later with zero point energy will not cost us much, but we could loose some very useful secret projects that we can build now. Many are excellent, I would try to get at least 3-4:
- The Rejuvenation tanks
- Planetary energy grid
- The Vitro fertilization center
- The Polymorphic defense system
The remaining Weather paradigm, The echelon mirror park may be less priority, but it depends.
And again, it's investment thing. We sacrifice some research points now to get more benefits in the future sooner.

[Mart]

Council 2140-2150 - Economy
Proposed additions/changes, this is to review with other proposals.

• Units:
  - Formers, up to 20 total, preferably first build in order to start terraforming sooner. Roads first to enable efficient crawling and fast SP instabuilding.
  - Crawlers build with priority just after or equal to formers. See Scret Project item.
  - Pototypes, other military, see facilities
• Facilities:
  - Recycling tanks, preferably after a base has at least 1 former and 1 crawler, also hurried after accumulated 10 minerals, starting from core bases, that are most secured. First priority.
  - In a selected base or 2 bases - Command Center. Better morale prototypes and other units.
  - Network nodes in bases with at least 3 or 4 base labs.
  - Energy banks - (see Secret projects)
• Secret Projects, preferably instabuild, so crawlers can get more resources,in this order:
  - The Vitro Fertilization Center, bases 3 population, 1 talent
  - Planetary Energy Grid, free Energy bank, 25% stockpile. preferable over facilities in bases.
  - The Rejuvenation tanks, 1 talent per base
  - other if possible
• Switching to Plutocrat in 2140. Private/protectionist when terraforming allows for beter use of increased economy - most bases energy income around 10 or more.

Proposals for Research, Diplomacy, pending...

[Hydro]

You know, I don't think there is that much disagreement. Zero Point is critical, but the fact is that it is a ways off – and we will have to make a decision on HGP long before we are close (pending tech trade).

3-4 more bases to fill out our area – fine.

RCs to keep our bases minimally stable – fine.

At least one former per base – fine. Building two may be an issue if we want to be competitive in the SP race.

For SPs, beating the Cyborgs to HGP will be a challenge if they are on track to finish in 14 years. Other SPs are nice, too (except for Eschelon Mirror is next to useless). I like WP since it means we can make do with fewer crawlers (and long term much less support) and can build higher order terraforming now, if we need to. But we have to make choices.

For military, in most cases we’re going to see unarmored, level 2 or maybe level 3 armor at most. A6r will do just fine in beating off these types of invaders. The key is having enough where you need them. That assumes we are fighting defensive, of course. If you’re blasting through perimeter defenses then that is a different story, and I sure hope we can have a chance to consolidate our gains before we take someone else on.

[Mart]

We may be very close to Zero Point Energy. Applied Plasma Physics is already researched by Cycon and Ghosts. I would attempt to get this tech first by trade, then probing. The question is, whom we probe?

Cycon - having pact, we might go to Treay, Truce or Vendetta, while Aki is noncommittal, I'm not sure how it would actually end. We will loose Pacted benefits though.
Ghosts - probably for sure vendetta. Their land forces are not strong, and for now we do not compete on sea. But any landing of Ghosts on our coast may be dangerous.

If we are able then to switch to Zero point Energy, we get it around 2152-2155, rough estimate.
----------
And maybe other factions have it too, we need to infiltrate more, Atlanteans? Sometimes, there is a way to find it without infilration.

We might enact our Intelligence Department for planning these kind of things.

And well, we are not that much abundant in personel...

[Mart]

...

At least one former per base – fine. Building two may be an issue if we want to be competitive in the SP race.

I imagine this as not stopping when we have 1 former per base, but maybe go to 20 now, and even more later, as needed.
That is true, we will need mix formers with crawlers, but while some bases will be better for crawlers, cause being closer to intended SP base, other will be almost useless, cause of distance and no good roads. So some bases can build more formers, other more crawlers. We may plan more details as the game progresses.

For SPs, beating the Cyborgs to HGP will be a challenge if they are on track to finish in 14 years.

We may loose a good SP anyway, when we complete (HGP) The Rejuvenation Tanks, they may switch to another and complete it before we do.
I like AI in Smaniac, quite challenging, makes game interesting.

... The key is having enough where you need them. That assumes we are fighting defensive, of course. If you’re blasting through perimeter defenses then that is a different story, and I sure hope we can have a chance to consolidate our gains before we take someone else on.

Land transports = increased mobility, for rovers too. And also for infantry having +25% against bases, helping with perimeter defense thing.
What I mean here, is that land transports have a lot of uses, in peace they will help terraforming, for defenses they can decrease number of military units for counter attacks, as they will increase mobility, and for attack inland bases with infantry when playing aggressively.
But overall, land transports are difficult to use, one has to plan a lot to use them efficiently.

==============

GIS
Genesis Intelligence Services

A new thread for GIS? Having everything in one thread (operations) is a bit difficult to see such more detailed issues.

[vyeh]

The issue isn't investing in development. We are building recreation commons and formers. We are hurrying recreation commons as soon as we have ten minerals, so we aren't losing time (or opportunity), just spending a few more credits. So an analysis of credits gained through plutocracy versus labs and credits saved in technocracy makes sense.

It bears repeating. We have enough credits to rush all the recreation commons. Once we sell mechanical resonance (hopefully 2 or 3 times), we should have enough credits to rush all the formers we can accumulate 10 minerals.

The issue isn't two formers per base, but whether we start building supply crawlers after the first former. If we build two formers per base, some of the bases will only produce 1 excess mineral per turn, so it will take ten turns to accumulate ten minerals toward a supply crawler.

If we build a supply crawler after the first former, it will contribute one or two minerals per year until we cash it in toward a secret project. If you want a secret project this decade or the next decade, we have to start building supply crawlers at most of our bases.

Let's be clear what the alternatives are:

(1) Go to plutocrat now followed by private/protectionist in 2146; or

(2) Go to private/protectionist in 2146 followed by plutocrat.

Under both alternatives, we will be able to hurry all the recreation commons, colony pods and formers that we can accumulate 10 minerals (this assumes we sell mechanical resonance).

The only difference is the progress toward the next tech we research and the number of credits we have in the treasury.

Alternative (2) will give us an additional 36 labs over alternative (1).

Alternative (1) will give us an additional 36 credits over alternative (2).

Once we switch to private/protectionist, our income will increase substantially and when we go to plutocrat, it will go up further.

The only issue is whether it is worth trading 36 labs for 36 credits. Credits in the treasury do not do us any good (there is no interest). One or two turns delay in researching tech for the next few techs might make a difference.

It doesn't seem prudent to assume that it "probably" won't hurt us to delay researching a tech.

We're talking about a difference of six years. We won't even complete two supply crawlers in six years. Even if we went plutocratic, the extra 36 credits would only be enough to hurry one and a third crawler.

So it doesn't make sense to suggest that we would lose several secret projects.

Going plutocratic now would sacrifice 36 research points for 36 credits we don't need.

Mart,

If you don't make a recreation commons the first build in each new base, then you can't have more than one worker (the second citizen will have to be a doctor). So if you make the first build a former, then you will be stuck with one worker until you can accumulate ten minerals to hurry a recreation commons at 2 credits per mineral. Assuming that each base also has a garrison, you will only be accumulating 2 minerals per turn (this assumes that the one worker is harvesting 2 minerals).

There is absolutely no way you will build up to 20 formers, an indefinite number of crawlers, a prototype, recycling tanks, command center, network nodes and three secret projects in the next ten years even if we switch to plutocratic in 2140.

How do you get energy income of 10 at most bases? Assuming we only have recreation commons and no psych allocation, each base will have only two workers (and a doctor or two) until we are crawling nutrients. The base square has one or two (if it is on a river) energy. The most energy we can get from the two worker squares (if there is no energy bonus) is two until energy restrictions are lifted. Throw in an energy from recycling tanks and the most energy you will get is six or seven.

I don't understand why private/protectionist needs to wait on terraforming. Except for the ten free minerals for the new bases, I would switch immediately. We would go from an income of 9 credits per year and tech breakthroughs every 16 years to 15 credits per year and tech breakthroughs every 11 years.

Hydro,

If rejuvenation tanks (HGP) is important, we have to commit to building supply crawlers after recreation commons and one former per base.

Let's simplify the discussion by deciding whether want to beat the Consciousness to HGP.

Then we can draw up a ten year plan showing for each base, its accumulated minerals, hurries and builds.

I believe the decision to build the rejuvenation tanks will constrain what else we can build in the next ten years.

Our bases are producing from 2 to 6 minerals per year (only Adonia is producing 6 minerals per year). Combined, our bases produce 37 minerals per year. We currently have 165 credits. Under plutocracy, our income would be 5 credits per year.

Assume we build the first ten minerals of any unit or facility. Then the rejuvenation tanks (HGP) will require 240 minerals under plutocracy. After paying the 40 credits switching cost to plutocracy, we would have 125 credits plus 5 credits per year or around 175 credits after 10 years (or an equivalent of 90 minerals). Our bases would produce around 370 minerals over the next ten years. So we have a mineral equivalent of 460 minerals.

The ogre and the alien artifact could be cashed in for 80 minerals. After subtracting the remaining 160 minerals, we would have a mineral equivalent of 300 minerals left.

We still have a recreation commons that needs to be built at Sands of Time. That is 32 minerals minus the 6 minerals accumulated.

That leaves 374 mineral equivalent. We have 5 formers and 1 former on the verge of completion. To get the other 14 formers would use 16 minerals each. This is 224 minerals.

We now have 150 minerals. Each recycling tank cost 32 minerals. So we could build 5 recycling tanks, but we would have nothing left for command center, network nodes or two other secret projects.

There might be some increase in the minerals (or mineral equivalents) from terraforming, but it will be limited for the next ten years because it takes time to build a mine (8 years) or solar collector (6 years).

And this increase will be offset in the support cost for the formers.

If we have 20 formers in the next ten years, then they would cost us another 15 minerals per year. So our base of 37 would drop to 22 minerals per year.

[vyeh]

There is a new thread for diplomatic and probe strategy.

Plutocracy without private/protectionist does not work well with Genesis.

Under technocracy, we have +2 research, +1 efficiency and -2 probe.

Under plutocracy, we have +1 economy, +1 industry and -2 morale.

Our faction started out with -1 economy and -1 support.

The -1 economy meant we lost a single energy at the HQ base.

So the +1 economy of plutocracy restores a single energy (if we didn't have the -1 economy, than plutocracy would have given us +1 economy or an additional energy at every base, 10 energy).

The +2 research meant that the 20 energy allocated to labs actually became 24 energy.

In going from technocracy to plutocracy, our efficiency went from -1 efficiency (+1 efficiency from technocracy and -2 efficiency from planned) to -2 efficiency. In doing so, we lost 2 energy (out of 20) in labs and 4 energy (out of 9) in credits.

So in return for a single energy credit, we lose 6 energy in labs and 4 energy in credits in shifting from technocracy to plutocracy.

If we did not have the initial -1 economy, then we would have gained 10 energy when we went to plutocracy and the effects of research, economy and efficiency would have been a wash.

Bottom line: In our situation, plutocracy is anti-plutocracy, reducing our wealth and research.

Once we've gone to private/protectionist from planned (raising our efficiency by 2 and our economy by 2 to +1 efficiency and +1 economy), then plutocracy makes a lot more sense, since plutocracy would raise our economy from +1 (extra energy at every base) to +2 (extra energy at every square).

I am not suggesting that we forego plutocracy, only that we wait until four new bases have been established, which will take 6 years.

Because bases do not lose accumulated minerals when switching social models, whether we switch to plutocracy now or in six years will have no effect on crawlers and facilities that are still in production six years from now.

The only effect is on units and facilities that are produced between now and six years. By selling mechanical resonance several times, we will have enough credits to rush every former, colony pod and recreation commons that has 10 minerals or more. So there is no loss of former time.

The difference is whether there is an extra 36 credits in the treasury or an extra 36 labs accumulated toward research.

Currently, we have 12 years toward applied plasma physics and it will take an additional 16 years toward zero point energy.

If we go to plutocracy, it will take 16 years to complete applied plasma physics and an additional 21 years toward zero point energy.

One of Mart's post suggests that he wouldn't change to private/protectionist until "terraforming allows for beter use of increased economy - most bases energy income around 10 or more."

We won't get most bases energy income around 10 or more until energy restrictions are lifted.

If that is the case, then instead of the 28 years, we're talking about 37 years (an additional 33%).

Now, we may be able to trade for applied plasma physics or even zero point energy, but we don't know which techs we may have to have in 10 years. Mechanical resonance (A6r) looks enough, but if an invasion force lands on our shores, we may wish we had tube mail (D3) or perimeter defenses.

I think we're about second to last in tech rate (the Templars are probably worse; the Cult is probably tied with us). If we cut our tech rate, we may even become last.

While pop booming has put us in a better position, it has not given us an advantage against the aquatic factions. Until we have more energy, we can't afford hologram theatres or a psych allocation that will allow for more than two workers (once we've established 4 more bases) per base.

In particular, the Ghost land base is a big threat. It has Ghost sea bases generating credits and it can have the high mineral production of a land base. When the Ghost discover mechanical resonance, they can send resonance laser rovers against our base.

Mart suggests that having more formers will increase our energy enough to make up for a delay in our current research. Merely terraforming squares doesn't help unless those squares are worked or crawled.

If we get further behind in military tech, we may discover that we've terraformed a lot of squares for the Ghosts!

[vyeh]

We may loose a good SP anyway, when we complete (HGP) The Rejuvenation Tanks, they may switch to another and complete it before we do.

The fact that the Consciousness will get a secret project is not a good reason to give up the rejuvenation tanks if that secret project will help us more than any other secret project.

Our bases are generating enough minerals. We have the ogre and alien artifact. We can get rejuvenation tanks if we're willing to devote Cytosino, Uracil, Mutatio, Adonia, Purini and Illuminatus to supply crawlers. (The road between the Templar bases and Cytosino will be complete before Adonia and Illuminatus builds crawlers.)

Each of these bases can produce a crawler in 5 or 6 turns. The rejuvenation tanks cost 30 mineral rows. The ogre and alien artifact will supply 10 mineral rows, leaving 20 mineral rows. 6 crawlers will provide 18 rows. So we can complete the rejuvenation tanks well before the Consciousness.

If we build formers at some of these bases first, it will take a little longer both because of the 2 row delay and because the new former will cost a mineral per year upkeep.

If we want to avoid cashing in the alien artifact, we can manage that.

What we probably can't do is build additional formers because we're hit by both an additional 2 row delay and an additional mineral per year upkeep.

I think the choice is having a secret project in the next decade or having two formers per base.

[Hydro]

If the SP is critical I'd go for the SP. We can always build formers later.

[vyeh]

Do you consider the rejuvenation tanks (human genome project) critical?

Strictly speaking, Creator Chuaue was a member of the Buenos Aires University genetics research team and probably has done some research on the human genome.

Rejuvenation is one step toward the Genesis project.

[Hydro]

Yes - HGP is critical. We seem to be fighting social stability, particularly as we expand the number of bases. I consider it as a free 1/2 rec commons, which more than pays for itself in cost (with a large number of bases) and with zero maintenance cost.

And as you mentioned, it does fit into the ethos of our faction.

[vyeh]

I've done some more analysis under technocracy.

Genesis has 2 minerals in 2140. In 2142, its colony pod creates an expansion base and it has 3 minerals. In 2144, its formers are rushed for 6 credits.

Illuminaturs has 5 minerals in 2140. In 2141, it begins building formers and rushes them for 6 credits in 2143.

Mutatio has 4 minerals in 2140. It builds a supply crawler, which is not rushed.

Purini has 4 minerals in 2140. It builds a supply crawler or probe team, which is not rushed.

Sands of Time has 2 minerals in 2140. In 2143, it rushes its recreation commons for 46 credits. It switches to formers.

Uracil has 4 minerals in 2140. It builds a supply crawler, which is not rushed.

Adonia has 6 minerals in 2140. It builds a scout in 2142 and formers in 2144.

Aurora has 3 minerals in 2140. It builds formers in 2141 and now has 2 minerals. Subsequently, it builds a supply crawler which is not rushed.

Cytosino has 4 minerals in 2140. It rushes its colony pod in 2141 for 28 credits. It switches to a supply crawler, which is not rushed.

Faralia has 3 minerals in 2140. It rushes its formers for 8 credits in 2144.

The first expansion base (by the two monoliths) is established in 2142 and rushes its recreation commons for 46 credits. It then switches to formers.

The second expansion base (south of Aurora) is also established in 2142 and rushes its recreation commons for 48 credits. It then switches to formers.

The third expansion base (east of Purini) is established in 2144 and rushes its recreation commons for 46 credits. It then switches to formers.

The fourth expansion base (by the two energy bonuses) is established in 2144 or 2145. It rushes its recreation commons for 48 credits. It then switches to formers.

The total credits to rush are 282. We currently have 165. Our income is currently 9 credits per turn (we will gain some income when we establish new bases). We can sell mechanical resonance to Ghost, Angels and Consciousness for 75 credits. We will gain some credits through the stockpile energy bug every time we build a recreation commons.

Since we can hurry all our recreation commons and build 5 additional formers for a total of ten formers for the ten existing bases, we're taking an unnecessary risk in going to plutocracy in 2140.

I would propose that after we build the four bases, we go to private/protectionist as soon as we can get the credits and then to plutocracy shortly thereafter. So we could be at private/protectionist in 2144 and plutocracy in 2145.

Do we really want to shoot ourselves in the foot tech wise if we can still rush all the recreation commons and have five additional formers?

When I first saw that plutocracy reduced our research and income, I was pretty sure we didn't want to be in plutocracy. Now I'm pretty sure that we don't need plutocracy for stability or basic terraforming.

I don't like the idea of rolling the dice and assuming we won't need a tech 10 or 20 years in the future for the sake of 50 or so credits (especially since we've been able to sell techs for 50 or 75 credits). We can't depend on trades or probes to get us the techs we really need. Only directed research does that.

Can we agree not to switch to plutocracy in 2140?