Newbie Help and Strategies wanted!

[QuixotesGhost]

I play Morgan a lot and for the same reasons (was reading Atlas Shrugged when I first got into AC).

Your goal with Morgan is to hit critical mass with your Energy income where you can start rush-buying stuff left and right. You rush buy facilities that give you more cash which allows you to rush buy EVEN more facilities that give you more cash - until your income gets so ridiculous you run out of stuff to spend it on.

Zak has the early game tech advantage on Morgan, but I say Morgan overtakes him by mid game simply because Morgan can turn his tech advances into facilities so much quicker.

Fundamentalism is bad. Morgan is an amazing techer and going Fundy removes one of his best strengths.

Important techs for Morgan:

Industrial Automation: Gives you the Social Engineering Choice: Wealth and opens up hab complexes to get around your low initial population cap.

Environmental Economics: Allows you to get more than 2 energy per square. If Morgan runs either Free Market or/and Wealth (which he definitely wants to) he gets +1 energy to every square, however he often can't use it because it goes over the 2 per square limit. You want to remove this restriction as soon as possible. Also, Tree farms are awesome.

Bio-Engineering: This is the tech that allows Morgan to support a large army. Note that the tech allows you to give your units the "Clean Reactors" upgrade. "Clean Reactors" make a unit a little more expensive, but totally remove all support costs associated with the unit. Once you get it, you generally want to upgrade all your old units with it and only build units with that upgrade in the future.

Generally my opening with Morgan is:

Research Biogenetics
Rush Build Recycling Tanks at my first two bases (and every base afterwards). Due to Morgan's support issues I think it's better to rush-build Tanks instead of Formers and the extra 100 credits he gets make it really easy.

Also, you want to do everything in your power to stay out of war in the early game (before you get Bio-Engineering). You have to swallow your pride and give into most demands.

You might want to make some energy farms with your formers. Basically you use "Raise Terrain" till everything in a cities radius is at max altitude. Throw in some Echelon Mirrors and solar collectors and most of your city's screen witl have +8 energy.

You also want to set yourself up to switch to Free Market as soon as possible - you need to get around the -5 police rating with Rec commons and energy producing squares to turn into psych.

Yang and Lal were kind warlike and I sorta got boxed in again, but managed to Probe Team one of the Peacekeeper's bases and flipped it to me. Didn't realize that started a war. I thought it was a little more subtle.

You can choose the "Total Thought Control" option when Mind Probing bases or subverting units - it has a chance of failure but won't trigger war if you succeed.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by QuixotesGhost
I play Morgan a lot and for the same reasons (was reading Atlas Shrugged when I first got into AC).

...

You also want to set yourself up to switch to Free Market as soon as possible - you need to get around the -5 police rating with Rec commons and energy producing squares to turn into psych.

I haven't played Morgan, so this is a question based on curiosity.

Since Morgan can get to +1 energy per square by choosing Wealth, why is Free Market better than Planned or Green or Simple? Does + 1 commerce overcome -3 Planet and -5 Police?

[QuixotesGhost]

Since Morgan can get to +1 energy per square by choosing Wealth, why is Free Market better than Planned or Green or Simple? Does + 1 commerce overcome -3 Planet and -5 Police?

I always thought +Economy was doing more than the descriptions said it was. I just loaded up a game of mine and realized +Economy is!

Looking at the base square with Morgan (and not accounting for recycling tanks), you get:

2 Energy at your base square with no SE Economy modifiers
2 Energy at your base square running just Wealth
4 Energy at your base square running just Free Market
6 Energy at your base square running both Wealth and Free Market.

You get this Energy Immediately upon founding a base and in the early game before caps are lifted it can make a big difference. There's a point where the +2 Efficiency with Green trumps the +2 Economy with Free Market, but you need to get fairly big before that happens. And to be honest, if you're not at pop cap, I think the -Growth is a bigger drawback than the -Police and -Planet.

-5 Police and -3 Planet don't really matter if you can get people to leave you alone and you don't have to go to war. If you need to press an offensive war - sure you may need to drop out of FM/Wealth - if not at war, however, why not? And you can get around the police drawback by supporting your army from a base with a punishment sphere.

Also, don't write off +commerce. Commerce is HUGE for Morgan. Getting Trading Partners is Vital for securing an Economic Victory. If random AI calls you up and says, "I'll be your Pact Brother in exchange for going to war with Random AI X", you need to think long and hard before turning him down. It's often worth it to fight a defensive war simply to reap the massive Commerce returns from your Pact partner.

[StealthKab]

Yeah, I usually get a faction to ask me for a pact. Mostly Peacekeepers, Gaians, or University, but the others sometimes ask. I've always turned them down because they are almost always at war with someone else, usually another faction I have a treaty with. Also, I just don't want to get dragged into a war.

As for Recycling Tanks, I ALWAYS build them in my bases. I haven't rushed them because the most they've taken to build was 10 turns and I was using my money to upgrade units and whatnot. Since I'm a newbie, I realize I should probably not start playing as Morgan. He does have a lot of disadvantages, but he also seems to me to be extremely powerful if played correctly.

Should I bother with Command Centers if I'm running the Free Market/Weath SEs because of the negative Morale? I'm not sure if the CCs help make my units even in or slightly stronger in terms of Morale. And, I've never thought of raising my terrain around the bases before. Would that destroy any improvements I've made to those squares?

I finally got far enough to build Crawlers and I wasn't really sure what they did even after reading the Datalink. But after building them and, to use an Army term, up-armored them I see why they are very valuable. Even more so, because one of my bases had a disaster happen where it wasn't producing any nutrients for 10 years and the Crawler was the only thing keeping it alive.

Lastly, I think I've come to the conclusion that xenofungus sucks. I tend to terraform it out of my base squares and in places where I want to make roads. I haven't really gotten any of the techs that make them a positive to me, so I really don't know any better.

P.S. What are the Special Project that are really important to Morgan? I tend to build the Human Genome Project and that Market one (can't remember the name). Anyway, thanks for all of the help you guys have given me. I appreciate it.

[BlackCat]

Hello StealthKab

Welcome to this place you can enter but never leave

For Morgan I would say that you WANT to hurry RT's . You need those extra resources it gives.

CC's are useful, but build only in your weapon factory. Wait for the SP that gives a free CC in every colony.

Crawlers are essential both for your unit support, but also for hurrying SP's. Done right, you can get them all.

xenofungus sucks immensely in the early years, so get rid of it, but don't make it a first priority - often planting forrest can do it for you - the techs that makes fungus valuable comes pretty late except one xenofungus empathy wich allows you to use it as roads. A little hint - if you have units close to fungus and suspect that there are enemies in there, then watch carefully during the AI move - there are a small glitch when they move.

You mention that you have trouble monitoring other factions units in your area. If that's the case you either have too much fungus they can hide in or your bases are too wide spread.

You ask what is The most important SP for Morgan - well, while different facs can have benefits from certain SP's, I think that the most important for all is WP.

I've attatched a sample game I've just played - it's a bit messy since I haven't played SMAC/Morgan/Easy for several years. I admit I was luckier than you - just had spartans as a close neighbour. Only improvement are roads and forrests. Morgan Collections are my armour factory and Distribution, Robotics and Studios was my crawler factories that fed the SP's in Industries.

When you have land to expand in, then reserve a base or to to produce CP's even if they fall back in infrastructure.

Hope I have been to some kind of help.


Oh, just out of curiosity - how the heck did you manage to pile up 2800 ? Well, I have a good idea It's just a waste *) - you should have pumped those into research - use the slider in E at least for every second round. Also note, Morgans research isn't linear - you might get the same research paying less.

*) On higher levels you are at high risk to loose them due to a chrash in the energy market, so get used to not stockpile unless it's for a purpose.


PS If you post a pic or a save, we can say more than just general things.

[BlackCat]

Forgot to say one thing - that save is won in some six turns when choppers become available - that unit is the most powerful unit in the game.

[vyeh]

(1) You're not a newbie. You are an experienced Civ 2 player. Civ 2 was my game since it came out. I owned AC for many years before I played it.

(2) Assuming you mean Command Center and not Children's Creche, Command Centers more than make up for the morale hit from Wealth. Morgan starts from 0 Morale. Wealth reduces it to -2 Morale, which is -1 morale, + modifiers halved. Command Center gives ground units built there 2 morale upgrades, so they end up at +1 morale. In addition, it only takes a ground unit one turn to completely heal in a base with a Command Center.

(3) Raising terrain will not affect your improvements. It can affect landmarks, e.g. monsoon jungle squares become normal squares if they are raised. I think I read where occasionally squares become rocky, which would destroy a farm or a forest. But there wouldn't be a problem with echelon mirrors or solar collectors if you're building an energy park.

(4) Crawlers are a feature that distinguishes AC from Civ 2.

They can do a lot: harvest a factor of production (nut, min or energy), allow several bases to contribute to a secret project or prototype (their full mineral value is transfered to the secret project), convoy a factor of production (nut, min or energy) from one base to another (can prevent the enemy from successfully starving your frontier base).

Because they don't require support, and, in fact, can contribute minerals (or nutrients or energy) to their home bases, an armored crawler on a forest square or a mined roaded rocky square will slow down an invading force. You can even put the radar special ability in the crawler to create the ideal sentinel: no support cost, pays for itself eventually, detects units moving two squares away and hurts attacking units. Since sentinel units don't move, you can even upgrade them to your most advanced armor at any time at their station!

You've already seen how versatile they are. They can change from harvesting minerals to energy to nutrients as your needs change.

(5) Xenofungus is another element that distinguishes AC from Civ 2.

Think of the defensive applications of xenofungus. If you research the right tech, you can build mindworms. Imagine a situation where the enemy is struggling to penetrate a fungus barrier and your defending mindworms are zipping through the fungus as if the fungus were roads (and mindworms in fungus don't require support and heal quickly; and mindworms attack at 3-2 and defend at 1-1 modified by morale and get an additional combat advantage from being in a fungus square.) The Xenoempathy Dome allows all of your units to treat fungus as roads!

(6) Ascetic Virtues increases the pop limit of your bases by 2 (which compensates for Morgan's inherent -3 pop limit). Empath Guild allows you to contact any leader (Morgan benefits from treaties and pacts with far off factions). Living Refinery adds +2 support (which eliminates Morgan's -1 support). Network Backbone gives you research points equal to the commerce at the base the Network Backbone is in.

(7) You're welcome. Because AC is rare and expensive, there are very few new players. I certainly would be interested in any observations you have. AC is so complex that it is still possible to discover something new in the way the rules interact with each other.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by vyeh

(3) Raising terrain will not affect your improvements. It can affect landmarks, e.g. monsoon jungle squares become normal squares if they are raised. I think I read where occasionally squares become rocky, which would destroy a farm or a forest. But there wouldn't be a problem with echelon mirrors or solar collectors if you're building an energy park.

Raising terrain surely destroys sea bonuses and it destroys sea improvements.

[StealthKab]

I never thought of posting a saved game. I'll upload the last game I was playing and see what everyone thinks.

[vyeh]

Originally posted by BlackCat
I've attatched a sample game I've just played - it's a bit messy since I haven't played SMAC/Morgan/Easy for several years. I admit I was luckier than you - just had spartans as a close neighbour. Only improvement are roads and forrests. Morgan Collections are my armour factory and Distribution, Robotics and Studios was my crawler factories that fed the SP's in Industries.

What was your best weapon/armor when you destroyed the Spartans?

What was the Spartans' best weapon/armor?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by vyeh


What was your best weapon/armor when you destroyed the Spartans?

What was the Spartans' best weapon/armor?

1-2-2 (they sucked - lost a couple) and 2-1-2 speeders against 4-3-1, 4-1-2 and speeder arty (have played too much Civ lately and stacked my units wich caused some unnessecary damage ).

Though, I must admit it was a bit of a walkover - my 2-1-2 was elite against greens and the Spartans was too at war with the hive at the other end of their area.

[StealthKab]

Quick question. Does the AI cheat like they did in Civ2? Because almost always when I've played a new game they seem to be able to build a new base right off the bat and usually less that 10 squares away from my HQ. Which sucks because then I can't expand that way now, limits my borders and pod popping.

My usual starting turns goes like this.

1. Build a Synthmetal Garrison
2. When that's done, I usually convert my minerals into energy because I don't have the tech to build Formers or enough population to make a Colony Pod.
3. Once I can make a Former, I wait until I get 10 minerals into it and then rush it.
4. Have it move to a flat square in the direction I want to expand and either plant a forest on arid or special nutrient/mineral/energy squares. Then start make a Colony Pod, because before it's done or before I can rush it, I'll usually have 2 population now.
5. Start building a road to the new base site. Once there I make a Senor Array. When that is done I plop down the new base.
6. In the new base I follow pretty much the same procedure.

First buildings I usually make in my bases are Recycling Centers and Energy Banks. And I rush those after 10 minerals and I can afford it...which I usually can.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by StealthKab
I never thought of posting a saved game. I'll upload the last game I was playing and see what everyone thinks.

Well, we are a curious bunch here so a save rarely goes unnoticed

My two cents : I would increase labs to 80 % - that cuts of a year in time for breakthrough - could probably have been earlier if you had checked it from start. Second, that landing site is pure gold if you are a bit systematic. Morgan can't go beyond four workers until hab complex, so don't spread your colonies that much - actually, the same goes for other facs - later in game when orbital improvements gets available, they can grow. Make a pattern of colonies spaced by two tiles (hint: if a tile is rocky, it can be inhabitable via former action _ (flatten terrain)) . In the posted scenario, well, don't bother about fungus removal that early, build roads and plant forrests instead (a forrest next to a fungus tile will probably clear it(. That will speed up your expansion. From Civ I know that it's important to place colonies at the coast, but since you can raise land in AC it's not nessecary. Ignore coastal cites until you get the capabilities connected to sea.

Last, build CP's as insane and build up a core - I can see at least 10 good sites.

Next time, make a save immediatedly after landing - that way it's much easier for us to boast about our superior capability to play the game


PS Hope you have a sense of humor

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by StealthKab
Quick question. Does the AI cheat like they did in Civ2? Because almost always when I've played a new game they seem to be able to build a new base right off the bat and usually less that 10 squares away from my HQ. Which sucks because then I can't expand that way now, limits my borders and pod popping.

Haven't ever played Civ II, so I don't know this - though, the spreading of AI's are pretty good in SMAC - you usually have room for expansion.

My usual starting turns goes like this.

1. Build a Synthmetal Garrison

1.a : go to the Energy and set LABS to 70 % or whatever gives most research - Don't care about the fact that you aren't researching anything - you still collect research points that is cashed in when you are asked for a research goal - you don't wan't to loose those valuable points. Start producing something, no matter what.

2. When that's done, I usually convert my minerals into energy because I don't have the tech to build Formers or enough population to make a Colony Pod.

Don't ever switch to energy unless there are no other options. 1a will have collected a nice pile to finish a former.

3. Once I can make a Former, I wait until I get 10 minerals into it and then rush it.
4. Have it move to a flat square in the direction I want to expand and either plant a forest on arid or special nutrient/mineral/energy squares. Then start make a Colony Pod, because before it's done or before I can rush it, I'll usually have 2 population now.
5. Start building a road to the new base site. Once there I make a Senor Array. When that is done I plop down the new base.
6. In the new base I follow pretty much the same procedure.

Build th road first - it's faster and you have the time.


First buildings I usually make in my bases are Recycling Centers and Energy Banks. And I rush those after 10 minerals and I can afford it...which I usually can. [/QUOTE]

If you are able to build EB's at that point, then you have followed a research path I wouldn't do, but that is probably a matter of taste

[vyeh]

AI Cheating - the AI does not cheat as much as it does in Civ 2. Submarines are ineffective against the AI since the AI always knows where all the units are.