Was Yang a transexual?

[sir_schwick]

This question was originally posed on the CFC forums:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=270389

The reasons for asking that question in the original thread were:

1. Many of the pictures in his biographic slideshow in the diplomatic screen consists of females, especially that of female children, presumably from before he started his treatment. One of the pictures is something that looks like a youth who is not quite a man nor a woman, quite possibly a picture of Yang during his transition. (You'll know which one when you see it.)

2. His viewpoint is a somewhat nihilistic one, that the human body is nothing sacred and that it can be molded into whatever one wishes of it. And perhaps, he wanted to mold his female body into a male one earlier during his life.

3. He is a fervent atheist with a strong distaste for religion. Perhaps persecution from fundamentalists due to his conversion fostered his disbelief.

4. His portrait. Doesn't it look strangely feminine? Perhaps it's because he never got rid of his habit of putting on lipstick every morning.

[Heraclitus]

Nope. An interesting idea but they didn't imagine him that way. Just read the books and short stories or read his biography on the AC website.

[Illuminatus]

If Yang was androgynous than the Magnificient Seven would have balanced representation of genders. Something like the Endless from Sandman.

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
Nope. An interesting idea but they didn't imagine him that way. Just read the books and short stories or read his biography on the AC website.

Oh come on. What kind of fan is going to let the creator of the work have any say about anything?

[Heraclitus]

Well there is no mention of his clone getting a sex-change so...

[sir_schwick]

But that does raise the question;

Considering Yang's opinion on body(which would include differentiation due to gender), his clone would be purposefully androgynous.

Okay, I admit that was not really a question.

[Heraclitus]

No it isn't.


And his clone wouldn't be a clone if he was.

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
And his clone wouldn't be a clone if he was.

How so? Gender reassignment has a lot to do with hormones and surgery and whatnot, not genetic modification - and if you catch it early enough (say, in the cloning vats) you wouldn't even need the surgery.

So I would suggest that an opposite gender clone of Yang would still have identical DNA and therefore be a clone.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis

How so? Gender reassignment has a lot to do with hormones and surgery and whatnot, not genetic modification - and if you catch it early enough (say, in the cloning vats) you wouldn't even need the surgery.

So I would suggest that an opposite gender clone of Yang would still have identical DNA and therefore be a clone.

Hmm, I completley forgot that it might be possible to do that withot adding a Y chromosome.


But in any case I very much douth this whole scenario, there is no evidence for it, and few if any good reasons.

[Heraclitus]

Re: Was Yang a transexual?

1. Many of the pictures in his biographic slideshow in the diplomatic screen consists of females, especially that of female children, presumably from before he started his treatment. One of the pictures is something that looks like a youth who is not quite a man nor a woman, quite possibly a picture of Yang during his transition. (You'll know which one when you see it.)

There are several explantaions for those pics, like there are for all the leader pics.

3. He is a fervent atheist with a strong distaste for religion. Perhaps persecution from fundamentalists due to his conversion fostered his disbelief.

Perhaps Miriam is a transexual as well? She could be so deeply religius because she is trying to make up for her sins?

4. His portrait. Doesn't it look strangely feminine? Perhaps it's because he never got rid of his habit of putting on lipstick every morning.

Such a lack of self-control dosen't sound like the Glorious Chairman.

[sir_schwick]

Sometimes original authors also did not expand a part of a story to include something it should. I would say in terms of the AC universe, Yang being a transsexual(possible hermaphrodite by surgery) makes more sense then him not. So yes, in the official canon Yang is not a transsexual. However can't we all agree it would be much cooler and more consistent if he was.

1) This does create perfect gender balance in multiple ways. Obviously first in pure numbers it would be (3-4 females)(3-4 males)(1-0 hermaphrodites, essential a male-female mix). Second the most extreme rivalries have all been male vs. female. Morgan vs Deidre(industry/environment), Miriam vs Zhakharov(religion/science), and Santiago vs Lal(big government/little government). Yang is kinda left out, despite having both a really hated Miriam and Lal. So this change also keeps that kind of symmetry.

2) An androgynous form makes sense for someone who is trying to create the ultimate collectivist society. Everyone is equal in relation to the Hive.

3) I get the impression the Firaxis team envisioned the Hive as a futuristic Mao's China. However as we have explored the game ourselves, we as players have come across a much more interesting and ambitious idea.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by sir_schwick
I would say in terms of the AC universe, Yang being a transsexual(possible hermaphrodite by surgery) makes more sense then him not.

I firmly disagree.

Originally posted by sir_schwick

1) This does create perfect gender balance in multiple ways. Obviously first in pure numbers it would be (3-4 females)(3-4 males)(1-0 hermaphrodites, essential a male-female mix). Second the most extreme rivalries have all been male vs. female. Morgan vs Deidre(industry/environment), Miriam vs Zhakharov(religion/science), and Santiago vs Lal(big government/little government). Yang is kinda left out, despite having both a really hated Miriam and Lal. So this change also keeps that kind of symmetry.

I don't see why a male/female confict is always nessecary.

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by sir_schwick
Second the most extreme rivalries have all been male vs. female. Morgan vs Deidre(industry/environment), Miriam vs Zhakharov(religion/science), and Santiago vs Lal(big government/little government). Yang is kinda left out, despite having both a really hated Miriam and Lal.

I always felt Santiago was the one left out.

Lal-Democracy VS Yang-Police State is a good dichotomy. Lal-Democracy VS Santiago-Power... not so much.

I also don't see the 'big government/little government' thing. Lal's got a huge, lumbering bureaucracy so I suppose it's pretty huge. With the Spartans, the military is the government, and since they focus so much on the military I'd say it's pretty huge too.


On an unrelated note, doesn't it strike anyone as odd that Yang chose to name his faction the Hive? Yes, yes, one could argue that it makes ideological sense, but I think Yang just wanted to be its Queen.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis
Lal-Democracy VS Yang-Police State is a good dichotomy. Lal-Democracy VS Santiago-Power... not so much.

I also don't see the 'big government/little government' thing. Lal's got a huge, lumbering bureaucracy so I suppose it's pretty huge. With the Spartans, the military is the government, and since they focus so much on the military I'd say it's pretty huge too.


On an unrelated note, doesn't it strike anyone as odd that Yang chose to name his faction the Hive? Yes, yes, one could argue that it makes ideological sense, but I think Yang just wanted to be its Queen.

I totaly agree with this, Santiago was the one left out. Yang and Lal are the anthitesis, and they both conflict with Miriam as well.

And Sparta is a fascist society what is this about small goverment? The military is the goverment in Sparta.

Originally posted by WotanAnubis
On an unrelated note, doesn't it strike anyone as odd that Yang chose to name his faction the Hive? Yes, yes, one could argue that it makes ideological sense, but I think Yang just wanted to be its Queen.

The original name was the Labyrinth so it makes no sense...

[WotanAnubis]

Originally posted by Heraclitus
The original name was the Labyrinth so it makes no sense...

So when you start up a game of SMAC one of the factional options is "the Labyrinth"? And one of the faction leaders is called 'Saratov'?

No. Didn't think so.