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**Humphrey** · March 23, 2006, 13:06

Re: First game played (at last)

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
Crawlers:

There's a land former and a sea former and a supply crawler but not a 'sea' crawler? Or is there? How do you supply crawl resources to a base from a sea square?

Just put a supply module on a boat in the design workshop. From this question, it appears you aren't using the design workshop much, if at all. You should be, you can make better units than the ones it designs automatically a lot of the time.

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
Probe Teams:

The manual hardly mentions probe teams at all, but Vel's guide seems to place a great deal of emphasis on this aspect of the game.

If you are 'infiltrated' by a probe team. Do you know about it after the event? If so, can you tell from your Fx game screens exactly what faction(s) has/have infiltrated you?

I assume that having the Hunter Seeker Algorithm doesn't 'un'-infiltrate a faction that has already done so?

Probe teams are very useful.
It tells you when you are infiltrated, it says 'so and so infiltrated your datalinks'. I don't know how to find out who has infiltrated you in the past.
No, it doesn't.

Originally posted by FullMetalJack Air Combat:

The manual says there are two basic types of aircraft; Bombers and Interceptors. Ok, what's a Needlejet then?!

Is a Needlejet a bomber by default, but becomes an interceptor by adding the Air Superioirty ability?

Can bombers atack choppers when the chopper is in flight?

A bomber is a plane without air superitory, an interceptor is one with it. I don't know if they can attack choppers, they probably can, I think everything can.

Originally posted by FullMetalJack Satellites and stuff:

I haven't got this far, and the manual makes no mention of it, so does having a satellite mean you see ALL unit movement on the Planet?

No. The whole map is revealed, but it's all under fog of war, you don't see unit movement and stuff.

**Humphrey** · March 23, 2006, 13:08

And yes, the AI is stupid.

**FullMetalJack** · March 23, 2006, 13:21

Thanks Humphrey

Disappointed to hear about the AI.

I wonder how long it takes to get to the point where the AI isn't considered a challenge then?

In this first game I had most of the leads almost from the start and nothing really changed to alter that.

You're right about the Unit Workshop. I did try it a few times but left it alone for most of the game.

Regarding Probe Teams. Thanks. I never got infiltrated at all in this game. Next game, I'm gonna up the level one more notch and play as Miriam and actively investigate that part of the game more.

Understood about bombers and satellites now. Thanks.

**Chaos Theory** · March 23, 2006, 14:40

Re: First game played (at last)

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
Is there any way to 'un'-infiltrate yourself?

There are four ways to infiltrate someone:
By pact
By probe team
With the Empath Guild
As Governor

Pacts can be revoked, ending the infiltration. The Empath Guild can be taken or destroyed, ending infiltration. The Governorship can be lost, ending infiltration. Infiltration by probe team is permanent, but you can always destroy the faction that infiltrated you.

On Specialist difficulty, you receive substantial bonuses relative to the AI. Librarian difficulty is most nearly even.

**FullMetalJack** · March 23, 2006, 14:45

Thanks for the clarification Chaos Theory.

So, the only permanent infiltration is - being probed.

Is there any way to see what the current state of infiltration is from the Fx screens or some other method?

Otherwise it seems you have to write down which factions infiltrated you?

**Flubber** · March 23, 2006, 15:24

Re: First game played (at last)

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
AI

With Civ II and Civ III it seemed there were a handful (comparitively speaking) of 'elite' players who could thrash the AI on Deity level. On this forum almost 'everyone' seems to be an expert who can thrash the AI on Transcend. So is the AI no challenge compared to Civ or what gives?

Two things--

1. This is a pretty old game so most of the people on here have been playing it a very long time so they know the tricks

2. This game has more complexity than Civ and the AI does seem less able to handle thecomplexity than a human so on balance the AI is less challenging

Originally posted by FullMetalJack

There's a land former and a sea former and a supply crawler but not a 'sea' crawler? Or is there? How do you supply crawl resources to a base from a sea square?

Use the design workshop. I recommend designing ALL your own units. In prefernces I turn off both "auto-design" and "autoprune". Its worthwhile to look closely at the mineral costs and attributes of available units.

For instance-- trawlers (sea crawlers) become WAY cheaper once you get to fusion power ( as do rover crawlers)

Originally posted by FullMetalJack

Air Combat

The manual says there are two basic types of aircraft; Bombers and Interceptors. Ok, what's a Needlejet then?!

Is a Needlejet a bomber by default, but becomes an interceptor by adding the Air Superioirty ability?

Can bombers atack choppers when the chopper is in flight?

You can name units whatever you want in the design workshop from fun names to just functional ones. Sometimes I call my bomber simply a B-6 or B-8 or whatever and my interceptors F-6 but other times they become Spitfires and Mustangs and Warthogs and tankkillers.

A chopper that finishes its turn outside a base will suffer crash-landing damage and THEN is considered to be "on the ground" for the purpose of an enemy's counter-attack. Since interceptors can attack ground units (at half attack value) this should hold true for attacks on a chopper

Interceptors may also "scramble" when in a base if an air attack occurrs within 2 tiles. It will take on the attacker weapon versus weapon but subject to a negative scramble modifier.

I actually don't recommend building many interceptors. A ground unit with SAM can shoot them down and is also more effective for killing enemy bombers in most instances. PLus a good defender inside an aerocomplex is usually betetr for base defence

Originally posted by FullMetalJack

Satellites and stuff

I haven't got this far, and the manual makes no mention of it, so does having a satellite mean you see ALL unit movement on the Planet?

There's also nothing about missile defence in the manual either. Anyone suggest a good reading source for that aspect of the game?

Read the in-game notes on

Orbital Defense PLatforms and
Flechettes

More generally, missiles are simply another form of air unit with the exception that they die whether they win or lose the attack

**FullMetalJack** · March 23, 2006, 16:16

Hi Flubber,

Thanks for the advice.

I did wonder about turning off the auto-designer but opted to leave it on for this first game to get a feel for what was possible. In future I'll turn it off now I know what to expect.

One thing I did do though, was micro-manage (badly) everything (else). There were pop-ups for all builds, events... the lot. If a scout patrol stubbed his toe on a rocky square, I gave him a band-aid for it!

WRT the Shift-L 'Place unit on alert' setting. If an interceptor is set to scramble, does it automatically do it during the AI's turn as the attacker approaches?

Supposedly, interceptors have their uses due to their long(er) ranges? Where some land-based units with SAM might not be able to reach quickly?

Yes, will read the in-game notes about flechettes and Orbital Defence Pods. Don't recall the manual mentioning them. Thanks.

What about the probe infiltration business? Do you have to resort to pen and paper to keep track of who knows your secrets?

**Petek** · March 23, 2006, 16:52

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
What about the probe infiltration business? Do you have to resort to pen and paper to keep track of who knows your secrets?

In practice, it doesn't matter whether or not the AI has infiltrated you. They always know just about everything about your faction. They know what techs you possess and which comlinks you have (since they never ask for ones that you don't have). They know the location of all your units, etc.

Can anyone think of something that the AI gains by filtration?

**Darsnan** · March 23, 2006, 17:33

Originally posted by Petek
Can anyone think of something that the AI gains by filtration?

Yeah - not having to infiltrate you again, so it can get to doing something better!

For some reason infiltration is one of the items on the AI's list of things it can do once it reaches a human players base, even though it already has complete info on the human player!

So once this is done * it can then go on to doing better things with its probe teams against human players. Sort of a stern but harmless warning to a human player to build some probes, eh?
This is why I typically toggle the "already infiltrated" option when setting up scenarios/ PBEMs.

* Note: I do believe I have previously seen where the same AI will infiltrate a human player more than once, though can't recall this for sure.

**Darsnan** · March 23, 2006, 17:39

Re: First game played (at last)

Originally posted by FullMetalJack
After getting SMAC last year I finally managed to actually get some time to play a game this weekend at last!

Probe Teams

The manual hardly mentions probe teams at all, but Vel's guide seems to place a great deal of emphasis on this aspect of the game.

If you are 'infiltrated' by a probe team. Do you know about it after the event? If so, can you tell from your Fx game screens exactly what faction(s) has/have infiltrated you?

I assume that having the Hunter Seeker Algorithm doesn't 'un'-infiltrate a faction that has already done so?

Note if you want the AI's to build Probe Cruiser why I have attached an amended alpha.txt file which has a Probe Cruiser available with Doc:Init. FYI in case you interested.

D

Attached Files

alpha.zip (17.4 KB, 85 views)

**Qwerty88** · March 24, 2006, 01:07

Originally posted by Darsnan

Yeah - not having to infiltrate you again, so it can get to doing something better!

I've had AI infiltrate me several times a turn every turn, they didn't look for tech or drone riots or anything else, just infiltrating again and agian.

**Sikander** · March 24, 2006, 02:55

Perhaps they are trying to train up their probe teams.

**Kirov** · March 24, 2006, 08:56

Originally posted by Sikander
Perhaps they are trying to train up their probe teams.

They could do the same while stealing cash.

**CEO Aaron** · March 24, 2006, 13:15

Jack, I'd say the AI is no dumber than the AI in any other Civ game, but because of the complexity of the game, the AI appears worse in SMAX than in any other Civ-like offering. The Civ AI was always a moron, and could be repeatedly and easily trounced in any version of Civ you'd care to offer, up until CivIII. At that point, the designers deliberately dumbed down the game to make it far easier for the AI to remain competitive. The global upkeep for armies made it much easier for the AI to spam out the millions of useless units and actually keep them. The removal of zones of control made it much more difficult for a clever player to funnel enemy forces into a deathtrap, turning combat from a strategy minigame into a mere exercise in attrition, and the slippery-slope game mechanic of culture made pure military conquest inviable, so player resources must be split between conquest and culture.

In short, the AI hasn't really changed since CIV 1, but the mechanics of different games show that AI in differing light.

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