Making shell units with clean reactor...

[Chaos Theory]

Don't stockpile shells - make a real military and conquer something! If no one is near enough, expand!

[Leon Trotsky]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Don't stockpile shells - make a real military and conquer something! If no one is near enough, expand!

So much violence... build infrastructure, think of the children!

[Kirov]

Originally posted by Leon Trotsky


So much violence... build infrastructure, think of the children!

My words, mate. Think of the children and parents will fight to the death!

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Chaos Theory
Don't stockpile shells - make a real military and conquer something! If no one is near enough, expand!

My point exactly

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Commy


I think there is a misunderstanding...you don't build these clean shell units when you are at war...you build them BEFORE you go to war, and before you are ready to go clobber somebody...

I understood this but

1. If you plan to upgrade to a non-clean within a few turns it is clear this is not worthwhile . You would spend more than you save in minerals.

2. If your plan for these units is 20 years in teh future I don't see the point and there must be more useful things to do. I would much rather use the cash and minerals to upgrade my mineral production further such that in 20 years time when I choose to I can rush and build 30 top flight units a turn all at once.

The only point to your plan that I can see is if you want to appear harmless and then suddenly rush a bunch of units and the same turn you upgrade a bunch so your military is suddenly formidable. But frankly it just won't work. A good player will fear in the longer term your 10 4-1-10 choppers even more than your five 13-1-12*2s since a good player never forgets about the upgrade possibilities.


PUt bluntly, the longer these units sit around, the more minerals you save on support, true. I just don't see the point in having units that have no purpose like that. They are an obvious preparation for war and were I your neighbor I would quickly start building some real units in sufficient quantities to be able to respond to your upgrade possibilities. You would have to upgrade some of these immediately or face the possibility of widespread destruction of your relatively defenseless shells.

Maybe you empires are so impressive that you get where there is nothing else to build. My empires have never acheived that since what usually happens is you get teching fast enough that there is always a new facility or unit available. Any time where I would be in a situation where I might even consider your plan of stockpiling shells, I would have to ask why you would give an oppponent more time. Attack now.

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by Kirov


My words, mate. Think of the children and parents will fight to the death!

--Colonel Kirov, Planet: A Survivalist's Guide

[Net Warrior]

Commy, stick with your guns :


I like to set up 2-3 bases with a command center and a bio-enhancement center and pump out Elite trained clean 1-1-1's or 1-3-1's etc depending on the base mineral production. Elite troops have plenty of mobility. OTOH, if I can't produce Elite's then I go for 1-1-1's clean drop instead. These guys are pretty mobile too. Either way, once you get these troops to where you want them and you're at war, then do a non-clean upgrade to whatever configuration you needed.

[CEO Aaron]

I guess my issue with the strategy comes in a variety of forms. First, being a builder, my early troops are usually pretty raw, whereas once I actually reach MMI, I'm more or less ready to go on the offensive. Why spend money upgrading old disciplined shells when I can have elites rolling off the line?

It occurs that if you're going to use this strategy in the long term, you might as well make them clean/police 1/1/X's and get some functional use out of them in the meantime. This might be worth trying for a momentum heavy Sparta, or Yang.

[Net Warrior]

Police aren't mobile and to me, mobility is the key with these clean shell units. I definitely prefer drop. I don't bother making clean shells unless they're elite or drop. I almost always get one of the 3 early drone control SP's so I rarely need police. Once my bases are size 5 I use specialists for additional drone control.

A slew of 1-1-1 clean drops are great for the initial early combat rounds where you use them to take enemy bases that you don't expect to hold anyway--use them for harrassment. Elite 1-1-1 clean trained are fairly mobile and also work well for this purpose. These elites can be upgraded as well and that makes them doubly useful.

[Kataphraktoi]

You could use those drop shell units on the first turn of a orbital campaign to wreak major havoc-you can ignore a player's aeropsace complexes if you have a treaty with him, and then use mass upgrading after dropping all your troops to capture a huge amount of bases. that is likely the only time i would build infantry shells,as they have complete mobility on that first turn

[that tactic is borderline cheating though]

I also greatly dislike using police, so i wouldnt see that as a positive plus for building shells. the effort spent trying to use police units can be spent so much more effectivly on econ, the only times i have tried police its like spinning your wheels trying to keep up in infrastructure

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi I also greatly dislike using police,

I can understand this sentiment for any free marketeer since early, police is generally unavailable but in the later game it is often best to be running green so Police can be useful. Usually I will upgrade basic garrisons to clean non-lethal units as a matter of course.

[Chaos Theory]

Clean, non-lethal scouts cost just two mineral rows, and so are trivial to produce wherever desired. There's no point in upgrading unless you have an army of 1-1-1 units serving as police already.

[Kataphraktoi]

often best to be running green

I take it you mean keeping up a +2 econ rate with GA+Wealth? If so this would be when i ussualy have size 14 bases split 7\7 to maintain GA. I believe psych is taken into account before police,so if the base was in GA it wouldnt need police. If that is so i find it hard to imagine police ever being usefull. In one game as morgan, using thought control and nonlethal methods allowed something like 6 or 9 drones kept happy per base-however i found a switch to cybernetic+10% psych did the job better with more econ\research in the end.[demo\green\wealth\cyborg] I then beelined for Eudmonia instead of STS and used that to solve any drone probs, and spammed maybe a hundred bases more out.

So while everything i said is strictly conditional, i havnt seen or thought of the conditions needed for police being part of my main drone control,besides yang etc. Everywhere i look at in the tech timeframe i think of reasons to use another method.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Kataphraktoi


I take it you mean keeping up a +2 econ rate with GA+Wealth? .

NOPE

I am talking when you have enough bases that effieceny matters a lot so that you might be running 0% luxuries while running Demo/Green/knowledge-- I am often running 80-90% labs to run through the techs

So police helps to keep a couple more folks working --often on boreholes

I have tinkered a LOT with my settings and if you have more WORKED tiles you will frequently find green outperforms FM when you have large sprawling empires

[Sikander]

Psych works from left to right, so there will be times where you would be in a GA but you still have a drone or two at the end of the line. Police can rid you of those drones and put you into a GA.