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  • #16
    yes, some Projects, like Weather Paradigm, Ascetic Virtues, Xenoempathy are matters of philosophy and the minerals you invest in them translates to what you spend to apply them to your entire faction. When another faction captures it, they essentially take control of the administrative building or school that teaches and distributes that philosophy.

    Although it is hard to justify why the other faction loses the benefits of The Ascetic Virtue or the Weather Paradigm from a role-playing perspective.

    Other Projects that give free buildings should be obvious. The faction that builds it does it better than any other faction. Other factions might build their own Virtual World copies by building a network of Holographic Theaters in each of their bases (and connecting them to their Network Nodes), but it won't be as good as the real Virtual World, because they built it first and understand it better than anyone else. Conceptually, a faction can copy the Command Nexus by building Command Centers in most of their bases and designate one of them (say, in the Capital), the Nexus, but it'll never be as good as the real Command Nexus.

    Some, like Datalinks, Longevity Vaccine, Immortality, the Space Elevator, the Network Backbone, and Planetary Engery Grid affect the entire Planet when built. 3 of those add to commerce. So the role-playing solution is obvious there too. That faction sells the treatments and sells the rights to use the Elevator to launch sats and so on. For Datalinks, the faction that builds it now has exclusive control over a vast Planetary data-network. It'd be like if Mirosoft invented the Internet. Information flows freely, but the controlling faction can also sift out useful information more easily than others, since they know better than anyone how it works. Other factions could probably build their own Elevator's too, but which is cheaper? Buying the space on the Elevator's cargo timetable or investing huge amounts of resources on a new Elevator, especially since their researches might project that Graviton Theory would be mastered sooner (is that the right tech?) or decide that the resources would be better spent on other things.

    Some, like the Hunter-Seeker, the Living Refinery, the Cloning Vats, the Nano-Factory, or the Universal Translator might be seen by the building faction as trade secrets and guard their inner-workings closely. Even if a faction managed to copy or counter the Hunter-seeker (with Polymorphic Encryption), the Hunter-seeker's original designers might design a counter to that as well... keeping them on the winning side of the information war. The Living Refinery is represented by the Nessus Mining Colonies (or whatever they were called) in other factions, but lack the secrets to make them as efficient as the Living Refineries.

    Some, like the Weather Paradigm, Neural Amp, Dream Twister, and Self-Aware Colony are represented in the other factions by Special Abilities. They can duplicate the results of those projects into their own units, but they lack the secrets of those Projects.

    Some, like the Bulk-matter Transmitter, the Telepathic Matrix, the Self-Aware Colony, the Cloning Vats, and most of the Planet-based ones are not desireable to some of the factions (Miriam, for instance) because of their values. Would a passive faction want to duplicate the Self-Aware Colony? Maybe, maybe not. A Police unit or two might do just as well. Would a faction that's already pop-booming want Cloning Vats? Probably not, or they might already have their own Eugenics program in place (as described by their SE choices that give them pop-boom), but it's not nearly as efficent as the Vats.

    The scientific ones, like Human Genome, Supercollider, and the Theory of Everything, and the Singularity Inductor (and the Secrets of.... techs) are all about getting knowledge first. The minerals that go into the these could be thought of as going to into building the very specialized equipment, finding and teaching the researchers and their undergrads, paying huge grants, and conducting grand experiements. Other factions might be able to build their own Colliders, but will likely not be willing to invest the resources to make one as large or incorperate it into an existing frame-work (like a new Fusion Lab or Quantum Lab). Of course, that faction's Collider copy will never yeild the same scientific breakthroughs as the real Super Collider, because they also lack the researchers that the other faction aquired.

    Also, as Ka Plewy wrote, the faction leaders have big egos. So, I think they would rather find a way to counter the other faction's advantage than simply play catch-up and say "me too!".

    Wow... that was longer than I expected and I cannot think of any other Project examples. Enjoy.
    It's really Synthetic God... I guess I didn't notice my own typo.

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    • #17
      Okay, I think, in a strange way, I have a good reason, and example, to answer the question...

      Let's first look at the Manhattan Project...only one nation completed it, the US, and yet numerous nations still build nuclear weapons...

      In a way, this is because, once someone builds the project, they have supreme control over that area...yet everyone else can share off of it...think of it this way...

      Take, say the Longevity Vacine...Morgan builds it, so no one else is going to go to the effort to build it when they can just buy vacines from Morgan...economic theory really, in the short run, there is no point in building "the longevity vacine" when you can just go over to Morgan and buy some shots...but Morgan still has control over the area, so he recieves most of the benifits...

      Take another example, say the theory of everything...once Zak discovers it, no point in Santiago building the same project when she could just trade the knowledge for some hard earned energy or a few out skirt bases...

      This answer, obvioulsy, isn't good enought, because eventually, all the factions will have some form of a longevity vaccine...

      Some improvements could include...

      Special requirements for each SP...the longevity vaccine would require 5 research hospitals, the space elevator 5 aerospace complexes, the citizens defense force would require 5 perimeter defenses already built, or maybe x amount of sensors built...human genome, say, requires you to have knowledge of biogenics for 10 years...perhaps some SPs give extra commerce as over factions share off your benifits through trade...

      Another idea would be to have a lock-out date...say Morgan starts building the Merchant Exchange at 2150...no one else could start building it after 2160...or say, Morgan acquired half the minerals to build the project, and because you has "an industrial lead", all other factions must drop out of the race...

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      • #18
        Things such as the command nexus you could look upon as a continuous process, taking children away and training them for the first 20years, hence strong soldiers. Other factions might frown upon that for various reasons or not view it as worthwhile.

        HGP, higher education or DNA tampering, others might not be able to afford it on such a large scale.

        WP, formers are being constantly refitted with new expensive tools.

        Helps make a little more sense for a few of them, they're more mindsets then actual standing monuments of marble.
        It could be interesting to include multiple versions of some but raise the mineral cost to a rather extortionate level for each player after the first to build it.
        Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendant, and to embrace them is to acheive enlightenment.

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        • #19
          My excuse for the Hunter Seeker Algorithm's uniqueness was that it quickly spread and killed off any later attempts to rival its power.

          This then led into the massive plot incongruity that was the Cybernetic Consciousness, but not to worry - I don't think anybody noticed...
          "lol internet" ~ AAHZ

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          • #20
            massive plot incongruity
            Could someone explain
            -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
            -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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            • #21
              well if the hunter-seeker algorighim was able to kill off (as a seeker program/trojan) any other program that riveled it would it not be almost a conscious program like the consciousness and thus would not the consciousness be able to counteract it...?

              plot inconguiry means plots that are mutally exclusive don't make sense together.
              A university faculty is 500 egoists with a common parking problem

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              • #22
                For me SPs are more related to the factions that are predisposed to building them. This means that it is more an extension of the people of that faction and, perhaps, to extending their existing talents than a physical structure. For instance, the WP may be due to the Gaians or Cult’s intrinsic understanding of Planet more than a thingamajig that you slap on a terraformer. This is pretty good fodder for a SMAX fiction writer.

                Some XPs do not have an obvious home, and here is where a fiction writer needs to get a little creative since you need to explain both what the bloody thing is, how it really works, how it is developed, why a society would develop it, and in what way it effects the society. Do you really think the Cloudbase Academy is a floating city with planes shooting out of it, like in the SP movie? Well, I don’t. And why would, say, the Morganites develop it rather than the PKs? As another example, what is a Neural Amplifier? Is it a doohicky that is inserted in your cerebral cortex at birth (sounds rather Hivean, doesn’t it?), or a mental discipline (thinking Spartans, perhaps?), or simply an outgrowth of further attunement to Planet (for the Gaians or Cult)?

                Now, mutual exclusivity can be arranged by a writer by fiat: you simply say as part of your story background that other approaches – even if tried – simply don’t work, or that there is such a big lead that other factions can’t follow, are far too expensive, or that the faction’s ideology dictates that they don’t want to follow (e.g. – philosophical problems).

                There are many possibilities.

                Hydro

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                • #23
                  No reasons, just a silly Civ relic.
                  (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                  (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                  (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                  • #24
                    I think the idea of SPs is mostly for game balance...take the supercollider...anyone could build a supercollider, no special talents there...

                    I think that rather instead of being a secret project, it is more of a famous project undertaken by a specific faction...other factions may have followed later, but since they weren't the first, no-one cares about them...

                    For example, everyone will undoubtly build their own citizen's defense force, but because the Gaians completed theirs first, it gets recognized in a storyline...therefore, the game benefits the first faction, for game balance...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Alinestra Covelia
                      My excuse for the Hunter Seeker Algorithm's uniqueness was that it quickly spread and killed off any later attempts to rival its power.

                      This then led into the massive plot incongruity that was the Cybernetic Consciousness, but not to worry - I don't think anybody noticed...
                      I liked this idea. It makes sense too.

                      So, any technological-based SP is basically easy to explain why only one faction controls it/possesses it. Things like the HSA, Virtual World, etc.

                      For the more philosophically-based SP's, it's a matter of indoctrinating your populace towards the SP? I mean, of course I can understand the whole idea around the Ascetic Virtues. But would the 'Virtues' even have some kind of administrative building? I mean, I think it would embody schools teaching anti-materialism and all, but how does one capture it? Unless its the reindoctrination to get rid of the Ascetic Virtues?

                      And of course, I can see how the Cloudbase Academy works. There's only one academy. It would probably have the best pilots there teaching the tactics of flight and aerial combat. It would be the West Point on Alpha Centauri, I guess.

                      Cloning Vats, how would they be exclusive to one faction again? I read everyone's posts and I can guess that whomever builds it first would have the understanding needed for having superior cloning capabilities...is that correct?

                      Lastly, I understand why those Planet-based SP's would be only one.
                      Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                      Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                      *****Citizen of the Hive****
                      "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Lazerus
                        Things such as the command nexus you could look upon as a continuous process, taking children away and training them for the first 20years, hence strong soldiers. Other factions might frown upon that for various reasons or not view it as worthwhile.

                        HGP, higher education or DNA tampering, others might not be able to afford it on such a large scale.

                        WP, formers are being constantly refitted with new expensive tools.

                        Helps make a little more sense for a few of them, they're more mindsets then actual standing monuments of marble.
                        It could be interesting to include multiple versions of some but raise the mineral cost to a rather extortionate level for each player after the first to build it.
                        So, it would be like the faction who discovers certain SP's would have an inherent edge and understanding of whatever the SP focused on, and would therefore have a vast edge in improvements in that field?
                        Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                        Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                        *****Citizen of the Hive****
                        "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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                        • #27
                          There's no need to argue over things that we all understand.

                          For example that Ascetic Virtues is more of a technology (or probably SE choice - 'ascetism') than an SP.

                          The HGP would also not be anything unique as it's more of a knowledge gained during mapping the Human Genome.

                          Firaxis just went out of ideas for really unique things.

                          And it's not the first time - Civ line has had this for >10yrs.

                          Also I'd like to admit that there are things that conceptually are not unique but once one builds them the success somehow can't be repeated.
                          Is it monopoly or simply the centralisation of some field to the place I don't know, but the most obvious example is the Silicon Walley.
                          There have been attempts to make something similar in Europe and Japan, China is attempting it now, yet we haven't heard of a real success..
                          -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                          -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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                          • #28
                            The Sillicon Valley is a bit different - there is only a limited window of opportunity where a geek and his friend could build a computer in a garage.

                            The next big thing is software and the Internet has replaced the Silicon Valley.
                            (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                            (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                            (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                            • #29
                              The Sillicon Valley is a bit different - there is only a limited window of opportunity where a geek and his friend could build a computer in a garage.
                              It may be different or not but it makes a better sense as an SP as many of SMACX SPs.

                              The next big thing is software and the Internet has replaced the Silicon Valley.
                              Why then people still try and invest big money to replicate it?
                              Just because someone built a computer in a garage?
                              Nope.

                              And there's always an option to make SPs go "obsolete" by some point as presented in Civ3.
                              -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                              -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I don't think we're arguing over what we are saying...merely debating over possible reasons why certain SP's would develop.

                                As said above, the "Silicon Valley" would be seen as a congregation of intellectual minds to try and develop new technology.

                                I don't really think the "Ascetic Virtues" is a technology of sorts...moreso than a philosophical ideology. Changing from a capitalistic view to an ascetic p.o.v. I just want to see how the other SP technologies would be developed for....creative....purposes (AC-Fiction rules!!! )

                                Despot-(1a) : a ruler with absolute power and authority (1b) : a person exercising power tyrannically
                                Beyond Alpha Centauri-Witness the glory of Sheng-ji Yang
                                *****Citizen of the Hive****
                                "...but what sane person would move from Hawaii to Indiana?" -Dis

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