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  • #61
    Originally posted by Commy


    But anyway, with the singularity reactors...since they give you 40 hit points, even mindworms would be at loss...not completely, but their success would be minimal...
    Nope-- worms in effect ignore reactor value so that a worm is equally effective against all reactors ( I think the damage is multiplied by reactor value)-- Thats why I ADVOCATE worms as the methodology against people with better reactors. The worm would attack and defebd equally well against the base scout and the 4-3-2*4 units if they are equal in morale
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Commy
      I am realizing it now...Eudaimonia would kill...so maybe your military sucks...yeah, sure, some people have singularity reactors, some have copters, and some have drop pods...but +2 economy without pacifism, pop-booming, and telepathic matrix would literally kill...my next game, I'm playing as Morgan...
      .
      Morgan has the pacifism free +2 ECON and yet is not viewed as overpowered. Note that the guy with MMI has copters AND drop pods (and an advanced specialist) and the CBA and Cyborg factory -- Eudomania still might beat you but I confess I wouldn't concede it that easily-- Builders,acustomed to huge maps, tend to underestimate what well applied military power can do to them.
      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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      • #63
        Originally posted by livid imp
        Nword,

        Why not cover all those condensors with crawlers? At least the cluster of fours that don't fall in the city work limits.
        Because I'm at my unit limit... IIRC, I can't even get enough garrison units for all of my bases since i have so many formers... A turn can take 45 mins in that particular game.

        Besides, researching 5 techs and getting 40k credits a year is good enough for me....
        I once was a slave to the Alderbaran 2 project!
        Now I shall work towards cIV:AC!... Oh Wait, that's dead too...
        It's Nword like 'lord' and 'sword'

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lord Nword


          Because I'm at my unit limit... IIRC, I can't even get enough garrison units for all of my bases since i have so many formers... A turn can take 45 mins in that particular game.

          Besides, researching 5 techs and getting 40k credits a year is good enough for me....
          Two things

          1. I would have expected that turns would take even longer than 45 minutes

          2. Why are you bothering to do this? Almost everyone has ONE game where they get to transcendent thought 100 or something before they give up in boredom and realize that playing for "score" is no real test of ability
          You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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          • #65
            In general - you can always be military tech backward if you have a bunch of NL at your disposal.

            Even better if you have the Neural Amplifier..
            -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
            -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Flubber


              Two things

              1. I would have expected that turns would take even longer than 45 minutes

              2. Why are you bothering to do this? Almost everyone has ONE game where they get to transcendent thought 100 or something before they give up in boredom and realize that playing for "score" is no real test of ability
              Because I can turn my brain off and terraform... 45 mins is an estimate.... And I haven't played that game in months... So I'm not that unhealthy ...
              I once was a slave to the Alderbaran 2 project!
              Now I shall work towards cIV:AC!... Oh Wait, that's dead too...
              It's Nword like 'lord' and 'sword'

              Comment

              • #67
                Originally posted by Flubber


                Nope-- worms in effect ignore reactor value so that a worm is equally effective against all reactors ( I think the damage is multiplied by reactor value)-- Thats why I ADVOCATE worms as the methodology against people with better reactors. The worm would attack and defebd equally well against the base scout and the 4-3-2*4 units if they are equal in morale
                I don't know how to say this nicely, but you're wrong on this...I have just checked on the game...a unit with singularity reactor has a "power" of 40 when it has full health, compared to a unit with fission that only has 10...

                If you don't believe me, set it up in the scenario editor, and allow the computer to show you the battle combat odds (it's located in preferences)...

                Perhaps you have never seen this because singularity reactors didn't work correctly and did not give 40 hp...this was fixed in the 4.0 patch...it was interesting, because at times it was more advantagous to have quantum units for mindworm hunting

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                • #68
                  After trying the Cyborgs with planned, I switched to SMAC and played the Morgans...since I can upgrade all of my scout patrols into 4-3t-1 units in one single turn (around 2180), it doesn't really matter how powerful someones army is...if I can't beat them in industry, I kill them with my probe teams...

                  As for MMI...drop pods wouldn't be too advantagous in early game...first off, they have penalties for attacking right after they drop. If they wait a turn, they have no more advantage of surprise as an impact rover.

                  While a combination of having copters clear garrisons and drop pods taking the empty bases could prove beneficial, going against someone like the Hive with perimeter defense? The copters would go down very quickly, and as mentioned early, a few impact rovers could clear out any dropped units...

                  The cyborg factory, while nice to have early on, is too expensive, and would not benefit most builders doing wealth early on...

                  The best benifit would probably be the CB...your copters would now be good for clearing worms out, and you'd be prepared for satellites...the only problem is, I don't play SMAX anymore...

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Commy


                    I don't know how to say this nicely, but you're wrong on this...I have just checked on the game...a unit with singularity reactor has a "power" of 40 when it has full health, compared to a unit with fission that only has 10...

                    If you don't believe me, set it up in the scenario editor, and allow the computer to show you the battle combat odds (it's located in preferences)...

                    Perhaps you have never seen this because singularity reactors didn't work correctly and did not give 40 hp...this was fixed in the 4.0 patch...it was interesting, because at times it was more advantagous to have quantum units for mindworm hunting

                    I don't know how to say this nicely but . . . .You are right on the hitpoints being wrong for a while but wrong on the rest.

                    The odds in the odds calculator are wrong with respect to native life. Against a fusion reactor, the native life has about double the chance of success shown, 3 times against quatuum and 4 times against singularity.

                    If you don't believe me, try fighting a few battles and see how the odds correlate to the results. Its pretty easy-- have a worm attack a singularity scout at the same morale. The worm will win just as often as it would against the fission scout.

                    This is a known bug. The damage applied from each hit to the high reactor unit is multiplied by the reactor value so in effect, the reactor is irrelevent.

                    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Commy


                      As for MMI...drop pods wouldn't be too advantagous in early game...first off, they have penalties for attacking right after they drop. If they wait a turn, they have no more advantage of surprise as an impact rover.
                      hmm I can explore faster and meet the AI in the early game for beneficial trades . . . I can pop a pod or find beautiful base sites and just jump a pod there, including lands that cross a waterway. I'm actually anticipating that the faster pod popping would finance a lot of the added cost of drop units. I could scout with copters as my recollection is that a probe team cannot subvert a chopper on the ground. My droppers could then have the benefit of dropping directly on some pods and then knowing a direct route to others

                      Originally posted by Commy


                      While a combination of having copters clear garrisons and drop pods taking the empty bases could prove beneficial, going against someone like the Hive with perimeter defense? The copters would go down very quickly, and as mentioned early, a few impact rovers could clear out any dropped units...
                      ...
                      Hmm how is this -- Your perimeters are irrelevant to my choppers ( only an aerospace would help) but my dropped unit would benefit from your Hiverian Perimeters ( it seems they are often retained after a capture)

                      Originally posted by Commy




                      The cyborg factory, while nice to have early on, is too expensive, and would not benefit most builders doing wealth early on...
                      .

                      Agreed-- This would probably be a later build although my pod popping would likely help build it quickly

                      Originally posted by Commy



                      The best benifit would probably be the CB...your copters would now be good for clearing worms out, and you'd be prepared for satellites...the only problem is, I don't play SMAX anymore...
                      The CB would be built first for sure just because its cheaper and for its benefits.
                      You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Flubber

                        This is a known bug. The damage applied from each hit to the high reactor unit is multiplied by the reactor value so in effect, the reactor is irrelevent.
                        Not a bug though, this is by design. Native life is designed to be the trump card for high end units. Native life itself is trumped by low end units
                        "They’re lazy troublemakers, and they all carry weapons." - SMAC Manual, Page 59 Regarding Drones
                        "Without music, life would be a mistake." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
                        "If fascism came to America it would be on a program of Americanism." -- Huey Long
                        "Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to greater danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Native life itself is trumped by low end units
                          1-1t-1 or 1e-1-2 anyone?
                          -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                          -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by livid imp


                            Not a bug though, this is by design. Native life is designed to be the trump card for high end units.
                            The incorrect battle odds is the bug. The fact that reactors are essentially irrelevant to native combat is not.

                            Originally posted by livid imp
                            . Native life itself is trumped by low end units
                            And that is the other downfall of native life-- Relatively expensive ( to build) worms get killed by the basic scout on a regular basis
                            You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              And that is the other downfall of native life-- Relatively expensive ( to build) worms get killed by the basic scout on a regular basis
                              So stack your ?-?-1 MW with 1-3+-1 defender and live peacefully!
                              -- What history has taught us is that people do not learn from history.
                              -- Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by binTravkin


                                So stack your ?-?-1 MW with 1-3+-1 defender and live peacefully!
                                Sure but it kinda defeats the purpose to need units that cost 5 to 6 times the mineral cost in order to survive attacks by even the lowest cost enemy. Also you are sacrificinh you mobility in the fungus if you have to wait for the conventional unit
                                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                                Comment

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