Vote for SMAC2 at firaxis.com

[Chaos Theory]

The Longevity Vaccine is oddly named. I've received a rubella vaccination, to prevent rubella. Logically, a longevity vaccination prevents longevity...

[Datajack Franit]

You know we have a swiss-brand blueberry drink named Ribella?

[Chaos Theory]

I'm not sure I would drink that, though blueberries are appealing.

[Kaboth]

Just gave SMAC the vote.

I've never even played those other games; they must be really old.

SMAC is on 40% atm and Colonization on 33%.

[Verrucosus]

I believe it might be a good idea to let them do a remake of Colonization first. There was a splendid feature in Colonization that needs to be improved, but could eventually be even more effective in SMAC.

I'm talking about the endgame. You win Colonization by declaring independence from your home country and defeating a Royal Expeditionary Force that is sent to put your rebellion down. The fascinating bit here is not so much the War of Independence as such - it can be a rather tedious affair - but the effect it has on the player prior to the Declaration of Independence.

The fact that you know that your colonial empire will have to withstand the onslaught of a strong opponent that cannot be weakened during the course of the regular game, gives you an excellent reason to make each of your colonies an example of efficiency. One of the reasons I keep playing Colonization is the fact that micromanagement choices in the middle and late game still feel relevant. I attribute that to the prospect of the defensive type of endgame where the efficiency of each colony determines whether you succeed. By contrast, Civ and SMAC games are notoriously hard to lose, once you have done well in the early game. Whether you try to win by conquest or by finishing some big project (spaceship, transcendence, energy market), a lot of micromanagement choices become less important in the later stages of the game. In Colonization, I never have that problem because I want my colonies to be in top shape when I proclaim independence. (Of course, it's important to know that you can decide when to trigger the endgame by doing this. If you secede before your holdings are consolidated, you'll just lose the game. If you play safe and wait too long, you'll get a low score and your rebels will be bored to death by defeating endless waves of royal troops the moment they land on the shore. If you choose a moment just in between, you might be rewarded by an exciting endgame.)

Now, I'm not saying that my "attitude problem" with late-game micromanagement should be everyone's concern, but an endgame where your entire empire is tested is certainly a brilliant device to keep players interested in everything that they are doing and to prevent them from focusing so much on what is relevant for a given victory condition that they get bored by the rest.

While I do not believe that this approach would work in Civilization - it would be inconsistent with Civilization's philosophy to have history move towards a climactic showdown -, I can imagine it would work in SMAC. Not as a repetition of history, of course, as allowing Earth to survive and having the Centauri system declare its independence would too much change the story we have come to love. However, the progenitors are born and bread to be used as villains in the last act of the drama.

The Alien Crossfire approach of using them as "ugliest among equals" was probably all they could do in an expansion package, but it has never really worked for me. Even from an atmospheric point of view, the mystery of the monoliths and the great interludes for the Borehole Cluster and the Manifold Nexus are much more impressive if these guys don't show up until a couple of centuries after humanity. These story elements are there to tell the players that something dangerous is coming and give them a feeling that every base will be important when it does.

From a gameplay perspective, it is essential that the endgame, as in Colonization, is not so much important in itself than as a device to motivate the player during the regular game. Given that purpose, it must certainly not be allowed to overwhelm the main story that should remain humanity's struggle for unity in an alien world.

There are probably lots of ways to set up the endgame accordingly. Perhaps it could be triggered by a faction's attempt to resume interstellar space-flight drawing the Progenitors' attention back to "Manifold Six". This would allow the player to determine the right moment (and perhaps introduce a subplot where Zakharov needs to be stopped from trying it half a century too early!). The Progenitors would then take over a few bases and have to be fought off the planet (a chance to use all these spiffy late-game gadgets against a strong opponent). Victory could be achieved by building the necessary space facilities and ships that allow to throw the aliens out of orbit and the Centauri system. They could use something like the "cooperative victory epilogue" from the current game: The Planetary Governor's shuttle arrives at the new orbital headquarters and he/she realizes that henceforth the stars will be humanity's real home. (Certainly a bit cheesy, but for me it beats Transcendence.)

Because Colonization is twelve years old and the "climactic endgame trick" has not been used since by Sid & Co, I'd really prefer them to evolve the concept in a remake of Colonization first. If that works, they can then try to introduce it in SMAC. They could promote this as the "main improvement" and hopefully leave the background story, the characters and rest of the game mechanics alone and teach the computer how to use them. In the meantime, we could all keep our jobs and enjoy the original game for a few more years.

[Xian]

Originally posted by Hydro
Xian - be careful what you wish for. Your ideas are great, but likely to more than a tad complicated. There was a recent game of amazing complexity that tried to offer everything to everyone in empire, economic simulation, epic battles, diplomacy, and 'mood', and ended up pleasing almost no one due to the very complexity it touted (which made parts of the game impenetrable) and coding errors made worse due to complexity and the Law of Unintended Consequences (which wrecked gameplay and infuriated gamers).

Mantra: Remember Moo3!

Hydro

Thats basically the opposite of what I meant, not just complexity for the sake of complexity, or even for the sake of good gameplay; but to really take advantage of new technology and not just be an update 2005 edition. Like I said, Imo the things I was suggesting were what teh original vision or INTENTION was for SMAC/X but for technical and/or progamming reasons wasnt possible

btw add to my list infinite amounts of factions (not literally infiniste but "not finite") and obviously AI that does the game justice

[binTravkin]

*snip*
However, the progenitors are born and bread to be used as villains in the last act of the drama.

The Alien Crossfire approach of using them as "ugliest among equals" was probably all they could do in an expansion package, but it has never really worked for me. Even from an atmospheric point of view, the mystery of the monoliths and the great interludes for the Borehole Cluster and the Manifold Nexus are much more impressive if these guys don't show up until a couple of centuries after humanity. These story elements are there to tell the players that something dangerous is coming and give them a feeling that every base will be important when it does.

From a gameplay perspective, it is essential that the endgame, as in Colonization, is not so much important in itself than as a device to motivate the player during the regular game. Given that purpose, it must certainly not be allowed to overwhelm the main story that should remain humanity's struggle for unity in an alien world.

There are probably lots of ways to set up the endgame accordingly. Perhaps it could be triggered by a faction's attempt to resume interstellar space-flight drawing the Progenitors' attention back to "Manifold Six". This would allow the player to determine the right moment (and perhaps introduce a subplot where Zakharov needs to be stopped from trying it half a century too early!). The Progenitors would then take over a few bases and have to be fought off the planet (a chance to use all these spiffy late-game gadgets against a strong opponent). Victory could be achieved by building the necessary space facilities and ships that allow to throw the aliens out of orbit and the Centauri system. They could use something like the "cooperative victory epilogue" from the current game: The Planetary Governor's shuttle arrives at the new orbital headquarters and he/she realizes that henceforth the stars will be humanity's real home. (Certainly a bit cheesy, but for me it beats Transcendence.)

Because Colonization is twelve years old and the "climactic endgame trick" has not been used since by Sid & Co, I'd really prefer them to evolve the concept in a remake of Colonization first. If that works, they can then try to introduce it in SMAC. They could promote this as the "main improvement" and hopefully leave the background story, the characters and rest of the game mechanics alone and teach the computer how to use them. In the meantime, we could all keep our jobs and enjoy the original game for a few more years.

QFT

and you're genius!

[Verrucosus]

QFT? Quantum Field Theory?

[binTravkin]

QFT = Quoted For Truth.

And we're up to 41% now (I just voted for the second time), while second place has 33%!

[Illuminatus]

Originally posted by binTravkin
And we're up to 41% now (I just voted for the second time), while second place has 33%!

It took you so long? I am forced to vote again and again whenever I want to check results since cookies aren't stored at uni or library computers.

[Kataphraktoi]

bah i voted 40 times on 1 puter.get with the program bin!

edit;speaking of which,i only need 7 more posts till 500! thats why ive been spamming everywhere

[binTravkin]

7 more posts till 500!

Now get to 3000!

Yes, it took me amazingly long time.
For some reason it remembered my vote even after I cleared all the possible cache.
It must be the IP not the cookie, your lib or uni probably has dynamic IP complects which change on each restart and if it's not the same comp getting the same IP it's easy to detect by some other variables..
(I have static IP)

[Darsnan]

Originally posted by binTravkin


Now get to 3000!

Yes, it took me amazingly long time.

I've been here since 2001, and am still a King, and probably won't make Emporer till late next year.....


:shrug: Guess its just about whats important to the individual.....

[Ka Plewy]

I lurked for a long, long time.
Posting is much harder than it looks.

[binTravkin]

Guess its just about whats important to the individual.

So what's your point?

Actually, you have it.
I am working as web developer and spend my interrupts between working here and on CGN.
I also stay late as I have nothing good to do at home ATM.
But that will change forever starting with 03.09.2005.
(don't ask)

And I was just trying to be useful to all the people providing hints, my (maybe not so good) ideas and organising things around significant events (you can spot the last one on this same forum and in the AC MP too.. ) as well as little humour..

Ahh, yes and occassionaly doing some stupid flaming and bashing..