N00b thread!!!!11!!1

[BlackCat]

I'm a late confict/builder, so I don't go for vast expansion as only rule (that's a lie - huge map invites to expansion, but you are not in a hurry). Dammit, it even got worse since someone learned me to make 128x256 maps .

CE to get formers, Biogen to get recycle, Social ps to get rec comm, sec hum brain to get trance (I just hate it when a base is invaded by worms because of weak defence) - free tech : PN and beeline for IA. Avioding pods since they may fck up your beelining in the start (no big problem since I usually plays with the few pod option).

First and second base start buiding something but change to former when they are ready typically loss max 3 min). First base build junk until recycle and rec comm. When those are ready go for WP. Former plants forest to get max min for 3 citz after that roads to new colonies (2 or 3, then back to improve). Second base build a CP as next (former as first base). First and sec base from now on build SP's until IA (typically first base WP, second HGP - if nessecary, other bases deliver TF units until SC are available). Third and following bases produce CP's to cover expansion. That should give WP, HGP, vW and probably ME as a start - if in danger of loosing one, then don't worry about ME, it's nice to have/deny to others, but otherwise pretty worthless.

I prefer to keep my reseach at max so so income is as close to zero as possible (sometimes it's better to spend, sometimes stockpile - depends upon SE). Talking SE - PLAN, WEALTH, DEMO for starters, but as soon as possible get to KNOW - those bad units from WEALTH is a pain. But it all depends witch faction you play.

Originally posted by Flubber
6. If getting attacked by sea landings think of using the shoreline blockade trick. Line your coast with units so the enemy can't get ashore. They can't attack from their naval transport without the amphibious ability and that usually comes later

On a small 10x10 island you need 38 units to do this !!! I could use those mins nessecary to support them better - if nothing else, build a SC each round.

If or rather when you get a hostile visit, and they land in forest, then wait. They will destroy the forest, and that is to your advantage if you have weak units, so so just stay behind your perimeter defence until they have done that. Of course you haven't build it, you get it free with CDF

This tactic usually gives me every SP and a sure win in transcend.

[Mart]

And here is the attached alphax.txt (zipped) where you have those probe cruiser and chemical missiles, Darsnan mentioned about first.
Also two bugs are fixed:
- amphibious pods for probe teams and
- antigrav struts for air units

Don't forget to backup the original alphax.txt

[Mart]

Originally posted by livid imp


Question to everyone, is it more important to you to build roads to get colony pods planted faster, or more important to plant forest to get that fast early forest spread?

I do both at the same time, road and sometimes forest and sometimes go to another tile making another road.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BlackCat



On a small 10x10 island you need 38 units to do this !!! I could use those mins nessecary to support them better - if nothing else, build a SC each round.

First-- I would never advocate building 38 units to do this -- thats funny-- what I was advocating was situational and its not long term as amphibious or air units renders the tactic useless. But it is a handy and easy way to put off an invader

Second-- USE crawlers-- the whole point is that attack and defense values are irrelevant if no one has amphibious abilities-- Crawl the resources in the coastal squares-- Each unit gathers minerals and doesn't cost any-- I often terraform coastal squares with the idea of crawling them.

Third-- The AI is stupid and will likely come from the same direction all the time and will sometime just sit there turn after turn. If I blockade even 5 or 6 tiles that can be enough . . . particularly if I have a waiting skimship in the vicinity. THat is my normal response to naval landings-- get some ships in the area and sink the transports

Originally posted by BlackCat

This tactic usually gives me every SP and a sure win in transcend.

leaving aside the the wastefulness of getting ALL the SPs ( except as a challenge), most folks on here win on transcend routinely and easily -- For fun try a one city challenge, or playing no crawlers, or switching sides or some other variation thats more of a challenge.

The reality is I can play any lame ass way I want and still beat the "game" on transcend-- I wouldn't then advocate the method as a good tactic-- Some examples

-- NO ships with weapons or transports may be built
-- Must declare war on anyone I meet-- no treaties or pacts
--NO FM
--NO SE switches at all
-- no defenders in any base
-- must give away every tech I get as soon as I get it to anyone that will answer

etc etc-- IN SP I have tried these things in diffeent games (and many more) and still won


My point isn't that your tactics were bad . . . they weren't but your criticism of mine was misplaced since you obviously did not understand it ( and I take the blame for not explaining more fully). My point is that the fact that you win on transcend is nice but really irrelevant since people can beat trancend doing all sorts of stuff that are less than optimal

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BlackCat
If or rather when you get a hostile visit, and they land in forest, then wait. They will destroy the forest, and that is to your advantage if you have weak units, so so just stay behind your perimeter defence until they have done that. Of course you haven't build it, you get it free with CDF

On to the meat of your tactic-- I think it is wrong headed to waste minerals on the CDF. Use those minerals instead to build 2-4 more crawlers (equivalency is difficult to measure depending on whether you are upgrading or not). THat is an added 4-16 resources ( if assuming 2-4 resources per crawler) each and every turn.

I simply see building the CDF as defeatist. Its a big expense to protect against attack. Quite frankly I am unimpressed with the AIs ability to wage ground warfare and believe that a decent sensor net is your best and cheapest defense. Perimeters protect only bases which I don't see being in danger since my defense is based on protecting my formers and crawlers to the best of my ability. If enemies get to my bases they are already far too far .

The only difficulty can be the naval landed troops which you may not spot in time if you don't yet have adequate patrols. Here I find a blockade of 5-8 tiles can do the trick. Against a single transport, you can even move the blockade with the transport if you have roads-- I did it once with 8 crawlers on a roaded coastline before allowing a dismbarkation point in a kill zone-- The blockade is not a huge part of my defensive strategy but in situations where it is of use, it can be a HUGE help.

What is my defensive strategy?? Simply put -- strike first-- A single command centre in a higher mineral base and pumping out a few best weapon rovers . . Arty if I have it-- kill zones with sensors and roads that I control-- Armored crawlers on rocky tiles in a pinch-- Do the upgrade only if you need to.

Against the AI you can hold off hordes of troops with a few units and convenient monolith or nearby command centre. Try it sometime . . . remember that the AI is predictable and will often follow the same routes over and over again. Spot those routse and begin the massacre

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Flubber


On to the meat of your tactic-- I think it is wrong headed to waste minerals on the CDF. Use those minerals instead to build 2-4 more crawlers (equivalency is difficult to measure depending on whether you are upgrading or not). THat is an added 4-16 resources ( if assuming 2-4 resources per crawler) each and every turn.

I simply see building the CDF as defeatist. Its a big expense to protect against attack. Quite frankly I am unimpressed with the AIs ability to wage ground warfare and believe that a decent sensor net is your best and cheapest defense. Perimeters protect only bases which I don't see being in danger since my defense is based on protecting my formers and crawlers to the best of my ability. If enemies get to my bases they are already far too far .

The only difficulty can be the naval landed troops which you may not spot in time if you don't yet have adequate patrols. Here I find a blockade of 5-8 tiles can do the trick. Against a single transport, you can even move the blockade with the transport if you have roads-- I did it once with 8 crawlers on a roaded coastline before allowing a dismbarkation point in a kill zone-- The blockade is not a huge part of my defensive strategy but in situations where it is of use, it can be a HUGE help.

What is my defensive strategy?? Simply put -- strike first-- A single command centre in a higher mineral base and pumping out a few best weapon rovers . . Arty if I have it-- kill zones with sensors and roads that I control-- Armored crawlers on rocky tiles in a pinch-- Do the upgrade only if you need to.

Against the AI you can hold off hordes of troops with a few units and convenient monolith or nearby command centre. Try it sometime . . . remember that the AI is predictable and will often follow the same routes over and over again. Spot those routse and begin the massacre

This is going to be short since it's late here. Usually when CDF is available to me I have a bunch of SC's just waiting to finish it in one turn, so for me it isn't a waste - my SC's hasn't anything else to do and new ones are already on their way.

Anyway, free PD taking a enemy base isn't that bad, especially if you only uses choppers and droppers.

I've just played a game where Cha Down routinely attacked me (quite idiotic since Marr at the same time took his bases one by one), but in three different places. I would at least have needed 16 units protecting the coast and that if I knew where the attacks would have been. It was fixed with four 2-2-2's who blasted the invaders away (those that was not killed when they tried to attack my CDF protected bases After I got airborne there was no problem at all.

[#endgame]

Prelude: these ideas are not my own, but things I picked up off others.

If you play Morgan (as I do), lots of small cities becomes even more important. Ideally, you'll be running FM/Wealth (+1 energy/square +2 or +3 energy per base tile, commerce bonus) and you want to make the city tile as large as possible. If you don't mind micro, get biogenetics early and rush recycling tanks (using your free 10 minerals that come with the base, during the start of the game, I stay away from democracy until I have Industrial Automation and am going for restriction lifting) for that +1/+1/+1 on the base tile. If you hate micro (playing transcend means the turn before you city grows to size 2, you need to turn the worker into a doctor to stop riots), get social psych early and rush rec commons instead.

To counteract wealth's morale hit, make 0-0-1 probe teams (infantry chassis) and upgrade them to armored versions. It makes them count as combat units when defending (same works with formers and crawlers btw), but the downside is they're more expensive to build (should be rushing them anyway, and they're free to support, which makes up for this) and if one dies, the whole stack of them will die, so they're not quite as good as sentinels.

Oh, and vel's SMAX guide: http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/dosw...rossfire_a.txt

Read it, memorise it, live by it.

[Sikander]

The best thing about having the CDF is that your enemies do not.

[duke o' york]

Well thanks for all the advice everyone.

I've played Civ II for years so some of this advice was a bit basic, but some will doubtless prove very useful. Even so, if any other SMAC n00bs arrive here, this thread will hopefully prove useful to them too.
Regarding the .txt file alterations, I'm going to try the original game first, bugs and all, before tweaking it to my liking, but thanks - I now know where to come for them.
I also see that some of you are so eager to help that you've posted more than one tip each.
Thanks though!

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Well thanks for all the advice everyone.

Have fun

I also see that some of you are so eager to help that you've posted more than one tip each.

Are you kidding - such questions are perfect for promoting personal ideas about how to play SMAC/X

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BlackCat


This is going to be short since it's late here. Usually when CDF is available to me I have a bunch of SC's just waiting to finish it in one turn, so for me it isn't a waste - my SC's hasn't anything else to do and new ones are already on their way.

THis comment baffles me-- While I also finish Special projects in a turn if I wish, the concept of having supply crawlers to waste is odd to me. I ALWAYS can find a use for another crawler so its not as if there is no cost to the CDF choice-- IT costs what it costs whether you use minerals or energy ( through upgrading)

Originally posted by BlackCat


Anyway, free PD taking a enemy base isn't that bad, especially if you only uses choppers and droppers.

If I have choppers and droppers, I am usually not too worried about my opponents ground response. Cutting attack routes to my new acquisition is usually pretty easy or you can have decimated nearby opposing forces. Don't get me wrong-- I would like having the perimeter when in conquering mode but its not a high enough desire to make me go out of my way to get it.

Originally posted by BlackCat



I've just played a game where Cha Down routinely attacked me (quite idiotic since Marr at the same time took his bases one by one), but in three different places. I would at least have needed 16 units protecting the coast and that if I knew where the attacks would have been. It was fixed with four 2-2-2's who blasted the invaders away (those that was not killed when they tried to attack my CDF protected bases After I got airborne there was no problem at all.

16 crawlers is not a particularly large number depending how far you are into the game. AS I said before, its not like these units can't be doing other things like adding sensors, other terraforming or collecting resources.

And as I tried to explain before , the coastal wall or blockade is a very situational tactic and to be clear it is a tactic and not a long term strategy. It can be of immense use in certain situations ( say if your best bases and terraforming are on a peninsula-- you prevent the landings in difficult places and instead allow them to land in a kill zone ) Its of moderate or even little use in other situations. I never claimed it was a cure-all for aggressive neighbors

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Flubber


THis comment baffles me-- While I also finish Special projects in a turn if I wish, the concept of having supply crawlers to waste is odd to me. I ALWAYS can find a use for another crawler so its not as if there is no cost to the CDF choice-- IT costs what it costs whether you use minerals or energy ( through upgrading)

I usually play on 70-90 % sea, so there are nowhere to send the crawlers . I know it's easier with this setting, but I find it fun to start on a 4x4 island and expand it through terraforming, and no, I don't build sea colonies by choice. Further, with a 2 tile base spacing there aint many tiles to harvest with SC's. Because I don't build everything possible, I have to choose between stockpile and build SC's and prefer the latter, and then I get a stockpile of SC's.

If I have choppers and droppers, I am usually not too worried about my opponents ground response. Cutting attack routes to my new acquisition is usually pretty easy or you can have decimated nearby opposing forces. Don't get me wrong-- I would like having the perimeter when in conquering mode but its not a high enough desire to make me go out of my way to get it.

Entering a long distance Ursurper island where you can't clear garrisoned forces, it's nice to have the edge of PD until the first scout unit is build.

16 crawlers is not a particularly large number depending how far you are into the game. AS I said before, its not like these units can't be doing other things like adding sensors, other terraforming or collecting resources.

I didn't consider using SC's to this purpose, so you are right, they don't need support, but i'm a little baffled. How do you terraform with a SC ??????

And as I tried to explain before , the coastal wall or blockade is a very situational tactic and to be clear it is a tactic and not a long term strategy. It can be of immense use in certain situations ( say if your best bases and terraforming are on a peninsula-- you prevent the landings in difficult places and instead allow them to land in a kill zone ) Its of moderate or even little use in other situations. I never claimed it was a cure-all for aggressive neighbors

Dynamic respons is a good thing if you know where they are coming, but to know that you need a large fleet to patrol (pre air), and then it's much easier to kill the transporters before they reach land, but that again is support demanding (no problem after clean, but by then I usually are airborne).

[CEO Aaron]

Welcome, Duke. Read this:

http://www.civgaming.net/smac/academy.shtml

The articles by Ogie Oglethorpe are quite good, as are those by Buster. Also read the top article here:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/game/198636.html

Velociryx musing on the power of economy and turn advantage revolutionized my game, they'll probably do the same to yours. I also spent some time wrestling with the search function to find Sikander's demo thread showing the awesome power of specialists and tight base spacing using the University, but didn't find it. Sik, know where it is?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BlackCat




I didn't consider using SC's to this purpose, so you are right, they don't need support, but i'm a little baffled. How do you terraform with a SC ??????

Sorry that was meant to read " 16 crawlers/formers"

But I'm sure you knew that

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Flubber


Sorry that was meant to read " 16 crawlers/formers"

But I'm sure you knew that

That's my developer gene that acts. One part of my work are to ask beyond users ideas of what they think they want and figure out what they really need