Paying for SPs @ 2 credits per mineral!

[Ned]

I have been rush-building SPs for some time by overpaying for an ordinary improvement and then switching to an SP. This allows one to build an SP in one turn for approximately the same cost as you would have to pay if you were above the 10% limit where mineral costs are reduced by half. The formula is (SP cost - 10 - base production - remaining minerals after switch) times 4.

Today, I built an SP for effectively two minerals each using this technique:

The base was building the SP and had 14 minerals accumulated. I switched to building an Aquafarm. I lost two mineral so I had 12 left. I then overpayed for the Xeno Dome by using the formula 300-12-9 (9 was the number the base produced) times 4, then swithced back to the Xeno Dome by double-clicking it in the build options list. The production switched back, and my minerals were "restored." This left me with approx. 576 minerals where I needed only 300.

Well, that means I overpayed. But the technique does indicate that the formula is only "times two" if one originally starts with the SP!

[Senethro]

Ewww, thats horrible, if I've understood whats happening correctly.

Is this a new thing? I've not heard of it before.

[Lazerus]

doesn't a base lose half switching from facility to SP? which in effect would mean you'd have to buy twice as many minerals at 2ec each and thus the project basically costs the same ?
been too long since i played, cant remember much ...

[Chaos Theory]

I have noticed that if you switch production, taking a penalty, and then switch back, you are refunded the penalty. I never used this feature except when about to pop a pod. Then, I can set the nearest base to produce something expensive, hope for a rush-buy pod, and if I don't get that, switch back for no overall penalty. It does make sense that the game would undo the penalty by multiplying your accumulated minerals, though.

[Maniac]

Neat discovery! Though doesn't upgrading crawlers allow you to get SPs for less than two credits per mineral?

[Chaos Theory]

Depending on your industry rating, you can't do much better than 2 EC/mineral by upgrading crawlers until fusion power.

[Blake]

Theres a fair few exploits along these lines.

I know exactly how to buy SP's, in one turn, starting with 0 stored minerals, at exactly 2 credits per mineral + 30 credits. But i'm not sure I should say how, because I suspect it could be exploited in multiplayer...

[Chaos Theory]

If you're suggesting what I think, it's just a composition of two other exploits, one sometimes allowed, and the one in this thread, which should never be allowed.

There are more serious exploits which are fairly difficult to detect. It's easy enough to cheat we have to trust our opponents.

[Blake]

Well for getting from 0 to 10 minerals just involves getting your industry to 0, then rushbuying a scout patrol to completion. (rush to completion doesn't set the "This base has already rushbuyed" flag). The other exploit is just a way to change production from anything to anything without losing minerals. I'm sure some other people know it.

[Ned]

Ugh! I reloaded the game just before the SP build and retried the trick. No matter what I did, I could not repeat it. Each time the game correctly said that if I switched back to the SP I would lose minerals.

If this was a transient bug, it was interesting.

[Blake]

Off the top of my head it should work in the following instances:
Easiest 2 difficulty levels.
Modified Scenario Options.
Modified alphax.txt
Scenario Editor Active.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Blake
Off the top of my head it should work in the following instances:
Easiest 2 difficulty levels.
Modified Scenario Options.
Modified alphax.txt
Scenario Editor Active.

Blake, what if one has a Skunkworks? IIRC, the switch to an SP still invokes the minerals message.

[Chaos Theory]

With the default alpha.txt or alphax.txt, Skunkworks has the undocumented effect of allowing switches from facility to facility or unit to unit without losing minerals. This should not affect the SP build exploit described here.

[Commy]

Isn't everything undocumented in SMAC. The question is, did the creators just FORGET to document it, or is it just an unnoticed mistake...

[Ned]

Commy, well the most important feature of Alpha Centauri is undocumented: clean minerals. I, Blake and one other worked hard on figuring out how to affect clean minerals. We wrote a piece on it that is published here on Apolyton.

Back to the topic, well it happened one more time for me, but only once. The effect seems sporatic, but that may be an illusion. Most of the time, the game does require you to lose minerals when switching to the SP. But not always.

Regardless, this clearly would be a cheat if we could figure out how to build SP's in one turn with a cost of two ec's.