Mind Worm Capture Tactics

[LAN_Dad]

I think I understand the SE impact on the probability of capturing mind worms, but is there anything I can do in a tactical sense to increase the probability of capture vs combat?

For example, consider a case where my faction mind worm and a wild worm are both in a patch of fungus. My son is convinced that if there is a tile between the worms and I pass through the empty one first and then attempt a capture in the same turn, then combat (failed capture) will almost always result. However, if I start my turn next to the wild worm, I have a better chance of actually capturing it.

So.. is this analysis correct? And from other experiences I would ask: Does the presence of other units in the vicinity (surrounding the wild worm with zones of control) have any positive effect? Does morale affect capture probability? Terrain? Ect?

Thanks.

[Kataphraktoi]

nothing except planet rating,as far as i know.the first native unit encountered is always captured if you have a positive planet rating.

and i would say offhand your son is wrong,he just had a lucky RNG

[livid imp]

A few things:

1. When programming a random number generation (to deterime if you capture a worm for example), you use what is called a seed value. This seed is typically based on something that constantly changes (such as your computers clock), but in SMAC, the seed is saved and is constant for each turn. That way you can't just keep reloading until that pod pops what you want it to or keep reloading until you capture a mindworm. Your son could have noticed this trend he mentions simply when reloading over and over again.

Edit: I later discovered the seed is saved only if you have Iron Man turned on

2. Here is a good tactic using worms to capture worms.
A wild worm typically wont attack a tame worm. So if it goes to a odds screen, leave it alone. End the turn, then try again, lather, rinse, repeat.

3. If you pop a pod and get surrounded by worms, try to capture one. If it goes to a odds screen, cancel and try the next worm in the loop, lather, rinse, repeat. Often once you have captured a worm the other (still wild) worms will leave you alone, so you can end the turn and continue to capture more worms.

[Kataphraktoi]

what versian are you playing??you can reload to get anything you want.i have done it with pods,battles,probes...anything that uses RNG

[WotanAnubis]

If I'm not mistaken, the capturing unit must have at least one whole movement point left in order to even stand a chance of capturing. If they have 2/3 or 1/3 movement points left due to roads and things, they will always fight.

[binTravkin]

If I'm not mistaken, the capturing unit must have at least one whole movement point left in order to even stand a chance of capturing. If they have 2/3 or 1/3 movement points left due to roads and things, they will always fight.

You've mistaken.

Try getting a capture situation with your unit 2/3 moves away from worm, reload it 20 times and write down the statistics, then try the same with distance of 0 moves.

Error wont exceed 10%.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Cataphract887
what versian are you playing??you can reload to get anything you want.i have done it with pods,battles,probes...anything that uses RNG

And you had different results? Well than appearently I have the "Static Seed" verison.

You keep referencing "RNG" so I am going to assume you do a little programming. Just so we are on the same page, you do understand that a computer is completely incapable of generating random number by itself and that is why a seed is needed, right? Is there any arguement to what i have stated here? I'm no major programmer, i am a dabbler at best I am afraid to admit. So if I am missing some part of the equation, please fill me in.

I have noticed if you change up the order of movements, or use the autosave vs. a manual save you will get a different outcome, but all of those things can effect the seed value. I am still unsure as to what the value is based on, but I speculate it is based on the save game binary data.

In my current game, SMAC keeps crashing when I end the turn. Everytime I have reloaded (4 times now ) and tried to redo the turn, every pod pops the same, every worm is captured the same. One of my big complaints about Civ2 was that you could simply reload a turn over and over until you won the battle you were fighting. I was very happy to note that SMAC does not use a dynamic seed (well maybe a semi-dynamic seed).

[livid imp]

Originally posted by WotanAnubis
If I'm not mistaken, the capturing unit must have at least one whole movement point left in order to even stand a chance of capturing. If they have 2/3 or 1/3 movement points left due to roads and things, they will always fight.

Negative. I have definately captured at 1/3 moveleft. Now there might be a "hasty" penalty to capture making it less likely, but we wouldn't know since there is no odd screen to confirm this.

[BlackCat]

The planetary pack has random seed - if you dont like the content of a pod (fungus tower just outside your main base in round two or some kind of tech advance that destroys your research plans) just reload autosave and youll get something else.

Even result of mindworm attack differs.

[livid imp]

Originally posted by BlackCat
The planetary pack has random seed - if you dont like the content of a pod (fungus tower just outside your main base in round two or some kind of tech advance that destroys your research plans) just reload autosave and youll get something else.

Even result of mindworm attack differs.

Yes, results will change from round to round. They can even change if you move your troops differently. But if you save right before popping a pod, then reload after each pop, you should get the same thing over and over again.

Hmmmm. It just occured to me that this come be different if you don't play with Iron Man on. That might be why we are all seeing different things. I always play with Iron Man on.

**sniff** **sniff** Do you smell that? It smells like a poll coming on!

[Ancyrean]

livid imp, I've been playing this game ever since it was out and even though I don't have the planetary pack but seperate CDs for SMAC and SMAX, and despite the fact that in my whole experience I have often resorted to reloading in order to get what I want from a pod, I am positive that without moving any other unit in anyway you can get different results from a pod-pop.

I never remember in all these years having the same kind of frustration that you mention here by reloading many times over (from a given position without moving another unit) and getting the same result all the time.

[Sikander]

I've experienced the static result from reload effect. Doing something else first and then retrying will give you another bite at the apple. Try it when your action is the last one of the turn, with "end of turn" on.

[livid imp]

Sik, do you play with Iron Man on?

[livid imp]

Originally posted by Ancyrean
I am positive that without moving any other unit in anyway you can get different results from a pod-pop.

As you stated in the Iron Man poll you usually play with Iron Man off. It would make sense for you to get dynamic results from reloading.

I didn't get a chance to try Iron Man off last night to see if things change. I'll have to try to remember this weekend.

[DilithiumDad]

I have never captured a worm with partial move points left.